Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to a new edition of Big City Catholics. I'm your host, Bishop Robert Brennan, bishop of the Diocese of Brooklyn, serving in Brooklyn and Queens. And I'm here today with Father Nicholas Apollonia, who is the pastor of St. Gabriel's Church in Helmhurst. And really for the purpose of this conversation is one of the priests who serve in the neocatecuman way. Back in July, we had the celebration, and I spoke about it with Father Christopher Henry, and we were just so impressed by that celebration, I wanted to bring someone in from the community to discuss it more before we welcome Father Nicholas, let's take a moment to offer our prayer. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, amen.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: Amen.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: Loving mother of the Redeemer, gate of heaven, star of the sea, assist you people who have fallen, yet strive to rise again to the wonderment of nature. You bore your creator, yet remained a virgin. After, as before, you will receive Gabriel's joyful greeting. Have pity on us poor sinners. In the name of the Father, the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, amen.
[00:01:16] Speaker B: Amen.
[00:01:17] Speaker A: I always turn to that prayer. I know it's a useful in advent, but I turned to that prayer, and I was the star of the sea. I think of it in the summertime. And, of course, St. Gabriel's joyful greeting. So, Father Nicholas, you're a priest of the diocese of Brooklyn. You're a member of the neocatic humanoid way. And as I mentioned in the opening, we celebrated 50 years of the neocet human way in the United States. And it all began right here in Brooklyn.
[00:01:44] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: And that was an amazing celebration. I don't know how you guys pulled it off, but we had something like.
[00:01:50] Speaker B: 20,000, 30,000, more or less.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: We filled the Berkeley center with great enthusiasm, and we did so with basically two weeks notice.
[00:02:01] Speaker B: That's how we work many times. I know.
[00:02:03] Speaker A: That is exactly how you work.
[00:02:07] Speaker B: God pulls it together in the last minute.
[00:02:09] Speaker A: That's exactly how you work. Exactly. It all comes together. God pulls it all together. And boy, did God outdo himself that day. It was a beautiful day out. We were supposed to be in a park, I think, in Newark. That would have been brutal. It was a hotel.
[00:02:22] Speaker B: Very fortunate to be in the barque center.
[00:02:23] Speaker A: Very fortunate to be in the barkeep center. And it was a joyful greeting, and it really talks about the fruits of the movement here in the United States. But before we get to that, those fruits tell us again about those beginnings.
[00:02:39] Speaker B: So 50 years ago, as you saw this event, this celebration, this eucharist of thanksgiving for the 50 years of the neocetic cumul way in the diocese of Brooklyn, it was a spectacle because you saw the young people, the families, all the priests, all the catechists that came together to celebrate this event, which began exactly 50 years ago with keqo and Carmen, were invited by Monsignor Donegan, who was the priest at that time. He was the pastor of the parish of St. John of Arc in Queens, my neighbor parish. And he heard in Rome, since he was in charge of the liturgy, about some songs that Kiko composed. Since Kiko is an artist, he paints. He also composed some songs. He was very interested because it was like a novelty, you know, because he put many of the psalms, the word of God, into music, and it was very attractive. So he was.
[00:03:30] Speaker A: And one of the ones that was a big hit here in the United States was Rezu Cito.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: Yeah, everywhere.
[00:03:36] Speaker A: Oh, I mean, that gets sung all over.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: Yes, because many of his songs began in the shanty town, and then others developed. But Monsignor Donegan came to hear about Kiko, so he was interested, and he invited him to the United States. And that's how he came in 1974. And they visited, first the diocese of Manhattan of New York with Bishop Cook. They were given a house there to stay, and they were given a list of priests to visit who might be interested, or to just go and present this new experience, which began in 1962 in the shantytown together with Giuseppe and Claudia, the catechist team from here, they went to visit all these priests. And believe it or not, everybody said no. Nobody was interested until the last priest that was visited, the last priest of the list, his name was Vincent Resta from the church of St. Columba in Manhattan. He opened the door to kecon Carmen. He listened to them. And what he said to Kecon Carmen, he said, but this is for sinners. And Kiko said, yes, it's exactly for sinners, for poor people, for people who are outside of the church, who need a good news. And so he said, I want it. And that's how they began. And then also at the same time, also Monsignor Donegan, not only for the songs, but in Bien Chico convinced him. He said, I'm not gonna only present the songs. I would like to present the neocaticumenal way. So some Monsignor Donegan said, yes. And it began also in the parish of St. Joan of Arcanous in 1974. And so the celebration of July 7, these 50 years is the fruit of this. Yes, of these two priests and a great. Yes, it is like the Virgin Mary.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: Has done a great deal. When we look at that, we saw people from all over the country.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: Exactly. All over the United States, the islands, Kiribati, some islands in the Pacific, which are basically a strip of sand. They passed also from my parish because everybody from the meeting had a pilgrimage preparation of the meeting. So everybody went to different destinations. And some of these people from Kiribati, for example, visited my parish, and they were extremely happy. From all United States was a spectacle from Belize, Arizona, California, Denver, Colorado, Florida, Dallas, all over.
[00:05:50] Speaker A: And one of the things that you often do when you have an event like that, for example, when you gather for World Youth Day or other events, is a vocation call. That was an exciting moment when you call down the young people who might have a vocation.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: So all these meetings, it's beautiful to see also, every time there's a world Youth day, we try to do a meeting like this with Kiko. Kiko tries to organize a meeting with all the communities, and he always does a vocational call, which is always a very touching and moving experience, because you see the fruit, how we can collect this fruit, which is not just something that happens, like, they stand up, like out of a sentiment or anything, but there is a journey behind this call which comes from the community, the catechist, the preparation, this whole experience of a neocetic, humoral way.
[00:06:43] Speaker A: That's a good point. I mean, there are people, maybe young people, who are just starting in the way, who kind of get a pattern, enthusiasm. But many of those who get up and respond to that call have already walked in the way. They belong to a group.
[00:06:56] Speaker B: They belong to a community who they meet every week, every Saturday, and they.
[00:07:01] Speaker A: Share with that community, and the community shares with them. So their discernment is really out loud, you might say. There's a community that knows them and says, yes, this is somebody who might be called to priesthood.
[00:07:11] Speaker B: Absolutely. The community is a place where you discover your vocation, maybe to marriage, to priesthood, to whatever God calls you, you know, to be itinerant, to be mission, to be a Christian in the end, you know, because this is the root of baptism, is to discover our mission.
[00:07:27] Speaker A: The other great fruit that I see in the community from my own experience is family life. Sometimes people come into the community where families are broken, experiencing tremendous pain. They're invited into this, and those families sometimes are healed or find support, and there's just a beautiful focus on family life. Large families families who are very dedicated to walking in the way.
[00:07:50] Speaker B: It helps everybody, in a sense, when you rediscover the word of God. But you can go to the community and you listen to the word of God, and this speaks to you. The word of God has the power to make you new, or you listen to the good news in the community. Also this, the Kerygma, has the power to make you a new man, a new person, to take you out of death, out of your old self. Like you said, many families I know from my community, so many wanted to divorce, not to have any more children, to go separate ways. And through a word that they received in the community, through the catechist or the celebrations or the Eucharist, everything changed, you know, like how God acts in the life of every person. And it's very beautiful because you see it something that everybody can touch and see in the brows of the community. And it's a spectacle, really.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: Let's talk about the formation of a community. I had some experience when I was in Long island, right when I was passing in Long beach. So I had already represented Bishop Murphy at the handing on of the Bible.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: The word of God.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: So I knew something, and I went to a parish where there was already one community formed, and they were looking to do another catechesis, to develop another community, to walk in the way. And so I'm familiar somewhat with how that gets going, but maybe you could explain. So how when a community, how's it formed? Right.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: So basically begins, it's all based at a parish level, with the permission of the bishop, in communion with the bishop, the pastor, that is, at a time in which, for a period of time, a group of catechists from the new curriculum way will offer their time to do these catechises in the parish, which are not just talks or lessons, but it's an experience of the love of God. They go as witnesses of what God did with our life, and they offer visas which, in a sense, help to rediscover baptism. All the graces we received in baptism, which is to receive a new nature, where our original sin can be forgiven and the sin can be destroyed. Through Jesus Christ, through his death and resurrection, we can receive the same nature, the Holy Spirit, to be able to love, to break the barriers that separate us. And so these catechisms are done in the parish, generally twice a week, and they finish with a convenience, kind of a retreat, in which, if God wills, a community is born, and the brothers that God has called, if they decide to continue to walk this journey based on a tripod, which is a little bit what the Second Vatican Council said, defined that every Christian needs the word of God, needs the liturgy, needs the community. So this is the tripod. To become a Christian, we need these three things. We cannot be a Christian aLone. So the word of God, the liturgy and the community, which were free, dogmatic constitutions of the Second Vatican Council. And little by little, the council is brought to the parish, know through this tool. And it's beautiful because they're very simple people. I have people who are even illiterate. We finished the caricises, and I was amazed because was this very muchistan, the big red truck, works in construction, and he was for 1 hour and a half, 2 hours looking at the Bible, you know, checking the word of God and praying and learning how to see that God speaks to him, you know, and so it helps many people to be introduced to the faith. This is what the early church used to do to become a Christian and to receive baptism, which was given as an adult. There was this catechumen, this formation, which led to baptism, right?
[00:11:32] Speaker A: So one of the things I remember too, is that you do evangelization, the old fashioned way that people go out, knock on doors, and just invite people to come down for the catechesis, to meet people where they are, and to help them to encounter Jesus Christ.
[00:11:48] Speaker B: That's also a fruit of the neocetic, cumulative way that many brothers, after a certain time walking and discovering the love of God for them, they go and announce it in the streets, like the apostles at Pentecost. They're filled with joy once they discover the love of God in their life. They are divided up in pairs, like Jesus Christ did in the gospel, and sends the disciples two by two, and they visit the neighborhood, all the houses. I go also with them to visit these houses, and it's beautiful because you don't know who's going to open. Maybe they reject you, maybe they laugh at you, but it doesn't matter. This announcement is so important and they're very happy to do it. And also with the young people in the pilgrimage also, they have a chance to evangelize, to announce their experience to the people in the streets. Also, we did a pilgrimage in preparation of the 50 years. We went down to Georgia, South Carolina, and one day we stopped in front of a bank and everybody looked at us, you know, we were singing, and after a moment the young people did a dance, and then everybody stopped. And with the cross, one youth gave his experience of how Jesus Christ acted in his life. How he saved him. He took him out of death or sin and gave him a new spirit. And he announced this to the people. And everybody was listening. I think there was the owner of a bank who was very quiet and silent. At first they wanted to call the police to send us away. But when everybody listened, he said, no, no, let them speak. And then somebody went close to him, and he was extremely touched. He began to cry and to say, to thank us.
[00:13:23] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: So it was really beautiful.
[00:13:24] Speaker A: It is beautiful. Tell me about your own journey. How did you come now? You just came back, you were visiting with family, had a chance to get to Italy, to visit with some family and friends, with your community there. How did you come to know the neocetic community?
[00:13:36] Speaker B: So I began basically in 1999, almost 25 years ago. I entered the community in Trieste, my home city, which is a city up north, close to Venice in Italy. All my family was outside of the church. Nobody was going to church, neither my mother, my dad, myself, my sister and I came back to the church, thanks to this charism, thanks to the new category, and actually saved my life, because I wouldn't be a priest and I wouldn't be alive for sure without it. Because at a certain point of my life, my father had a very serious accident, changed our life, of our family. It was like a tragedy. All of a sudden he got sick and he almost died. The doctor saved him. But then this affected all how he was, his well being, physically, mentally. So it was very difficult for him to be with my mother, who was always a lot of fighting, violence. And looking at this, this questioned my life a lot, because this suffering put in front of me a question mark. And this question mark was, but where is God in front of all of this? And I had a very big doubt. I was already six years old, but I already had this big question mark. Because everybody tells you, well, God is good, God loves you, God is very nice. But not in my family, not in my. Look at my father. Because after this accident, he lost his job, he lost everything. Basically, my mother left him, they separated. So it was very difficult. So for a long time, I had this deep crisis with deep suffering, not knowing what was the meaning of life. And thanks be to God, I was very unhappy. When I grew older, I was a teenager, I was looking for life in the world, but I never found any satisfaction. I was always more depressed, more sad, more alone, more empty. But thanks be to God. God put close to me a friend was part of a new catechumen our way. In high school, we were classmates. And he saw my suffering. Once I opened up to him, I told him about why did this happen to my father? And he said, I want you to come to these catechises. And he said, don't be afraid. There's a reason for everything. God sometimes allows things that seem evil to take some greater good out of it. I didn't understand it in the beginning, but I trusted him also, because this friend was a big sign for me. He came from a big family, like you said. He invited me to his house before they had lunch. They prayed together, they prayed for me. So it was very beautiful. I never saw something like this. I was always alone, by myself, eating by myself. So it was a totally different reality. And this opened my ears to listen about the good news, the church. Because I also had many doubts against the church, against God.
But this sign of his friend that was living his faith in a community, with a family, with a christian family, helped me to listen. So when he invited me to the Kherikises, I came, of course I'll come. So I listened and he touched me, because what was announced by the church, I saw it was the truth. And little by little I entered the community and I began my journey of faith with many crises, many falls, and saw how God has always been very faithful. You know, if I'm a priest today, it's not because of my faithfulness, but because God really was present and helped me also to reconcile with my father. And my father entered the community, entered the church. He was cursing, he was blaspheming every day against God, against the church. He wanted to kill himself at a certain point. And then he reconciled with my mother. They came back together, they both entered the church, the community, and he died the year I was ordained, which was a beautiful sign also for me, and many miracles. So thanks to the community, I can say I received everything I have. And I'm very grateful, because thanks to this charism, God showed his love to me, you know, in my poverty. So I'm very grateful to the way.
[00:17:26] Speaker A: So that's a very powerful story and it's unique. It's your own story and it's somewhat unique, but there are many different stories out there that have. Some of them are similar in nature, people who have experienced suffering and somebody tapped them on the shoulder and invited them to know Jesus through the way. And it's changed many, many lives.
[00:17:47] Speaker B: This is what happens many times, you know, the community begins little by little, with a small group, maybe, which is closer to the parish. But then, as the people listen to the word of God and convert. And people are attracted, you know, I was attracted by this friend, his family.
[00:18:01] Speaker A: Tell me, I'm putting you on the spot, but how many communities do we have here in Brooklyn and Queensland?
[00:18:07] Speaker B: There are several parishes in which there is venue, canal. So there is Saint Gabriel. There is presentation. Presentation.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: All saints.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: All saints with holiday of Pompeii. And then there is Saint Peter and Paul, John of Arc. They walk in my parish. And then in Long island, there's some communities in Long island.
[00:18:25] Speaker A: Yes. Franklin Square. Freeport.
[00:18:27] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: Long beach.
[00:18:29] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:18:29] Speaker A: And albabilton.
[00:18:30] Speaker B: Yeah. The way it works with the bishop, where the bishop is favorable, and also the pastors, if the pastors have vision to welcome the community, to see in the foresight of the future, like Father Esther, you saw the fruit from this little master seed, all those people.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: And his insight that this is for sinners.
[00:18:48] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:18:49] Speaker A: This is for sinners.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: This is the gospel.
[00:18:51] Speaker A: We're recording this before the Mass of the Holy Spirit for the redemptorist Maharaj seminary. So seminarians really neo catechumen away has its own seminaries, redemptoris mater, the mother of the Redeemer. But you work in partnerships. So the men here in our diocese, for example, are formed here in queens at incarnation parish.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:19:11] Speaker A: And then from here they study in various places. Many of them study in Dunwoody, at St. Joseph seminary with thou art other diocesan seminarians. But we're going to be celebrating the Mass of the Holy Spirit here. They've been on retreat and they're getting ready to get back into the swing of things. And it's a long process, even the formations, as long as it. Our seminarians, you have the regular things and a three year itinerancy in the middle. It's quite demanding.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: More than demanding, I think it's a grace, because every vocation is a grace.
[00:19:44] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: And it's a big help, you know, because to discern and also to have a time of mission is very important. To become a priest, it takes time.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: And I want to jump on that word missionary, because that's another piece of it. So seminarians have emerged from Brooklyn and queens and are being formed in other dioceses for those diocese. And we get young men who are studying for us who come from other parts of the United States or around the world. And yours is a missionary movement.
[00:20:11] Speaker B: The peculiarity of the.
[00:20:13] Speaker A: You are missionaries?
[00:20:14] Speaker B: Well, every christian is missionary. Baptism makes us missionary. So this is the way. The way is basically baptism. It's a rediscovery of baptism, but you.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: Live it out in a very powerful way.
[00:20:24] Speaker B: And also the seminary. The peculiarity of the seminary is that the seminaries are international.
They go for a time of mission and the formation, they receive the formation from studies, the human formation, but also they have the community the way, as a way of formation, you know, which is unique and which is very beautiful, because also it helps to form them as a christian, not only as a priest, but to be a christian. First of all, like St. Augustine used to say, I'm a bishop for you, but I'm a christian with you.
[00:20:54] Speaker A: You know, the first is responsibility, and the second is a blessing. So, yeah, we're very proud. We have, our men are indeed missionaries. We have men from all over the country here, and really from all over the world. They've answered the call. And in a sense, you don't really even know when you say yes to the call to be a missionary, you don't say, I want to go to Brooklyn.
[00:21:14] Speaker B: No, this is the Holy Spirit. You're celebrating the mass of the Holy Spirit. This is how the Holy Spirit works, in the way we never decide who goes where, what is always left to Providence, you know, to the Holy Spirit. I came here basically to Brooklyn also by lottery. That's how the seminarians come to the different places, the different redditorism matter, seminaries all over the world. So we give our availability, and then God sends whatever, China, Africa, Brooklyn, Germany, Poland, Pakistan, whatever it is, because also this is the nature of Christ. Christ didn't go only to one place. He went to the whole WoRld. He saId, go to the whole world. Evangelize.
[00:21:53] Speaker A: Well, I'm so glad to have you as part of our prince Pitteret and the other priests who are in the way. We were very fortunate for the neo catechumen priests. We have a great number of seminarians who are in various stages of formation, and I look forward.
[00:22:09] Speaker B: We had an ordination this year, Caetano.
[00:22:13] Speaker A: Catano, and he's serving in St. Peters in Long Island City. You are a pastor to a parish here in the diocese of St. Gabriel of the sorrowful mother in El Nurse Queens. We were talking about that before because they're about to open a chapel in LaGuardia airport. But St. Gabriel's has an interesting history as the airport.
[00:22:33] Speaker B: Airport. Paris. Correct. I was telling you before, but a funny fact now, we just celebrated. You came to our celebration, actually, of our hundred year anniversary of Saint Gabriel. It's recorded in our history. But Fulton Sheen, passing on one of his trips, he had to go to LaGuardia. To take a flight, and before leaving to catch the plane, he passed by a parish and he spent 1 hour in front of the Blessed Sacrament. Some parishioners saw him kneeling, praying. So it's the airport parish.
[00:23:04] Speaker A: It's the airport parish. Well, thank you for the work you do for all of our parishes, for those in the neochemical way. But also St. Gabriel's is a very.
[00:23:12] Speaker B: Active parish, bilingual, lots of Hispanics, lots of english people.
[00:23:16] Speaker A: It's a very lively parish. So thank you for that.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: Thank you, bishop, and thank you for.
[00:23:21] Speaker A: Sharing with us some of the good news of the 50 years of the human await here in Brooklyn and queens, here in the United States, and the future that we're working on together, that we continue to build to allow the Lord's work to unfold before us.
[00:23:38] Speaker B: Absolutely. Thank you, Bishop, and thank you, friends.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: For joining us for this week's edition of Big City Catholics. Be sure to join in next week when we return from Labor Day and get back into the swing of all the excitement of fall. Until then, know that you're in my prayers. I count on you as then let's turn and ask the Lord's blessing.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: The Lord be with you and with your spirit.
[00:23:59] Speaker A: May the Lord bless you and keep you. May his face shine upon you and be gracious to you. May he look upon you with kindness and venturous peace. And may the blessing of almighty God, the Father in the Son and the Holy Spirit come upon you and remain with you forever and ever. Amen.
[00:24:12] Speaker B: Amen.
