Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome back to another edition of our diocesan podcast, Big City Catholics, with Bishop Robert Brennan, the diocesan bishop of Brooklyn, myself, Father Christopher Henyu, director of the Co Cathedral of St. Joseph. We're really pleased to welcome Tim Ceceri, the president of St. Francis College, to join us in this week's podcast. Talk a little bit about the college, talk a little bit about your work there and the good things that are happening here in our diocese of Brooklyn. But we'll begin in prayer. I thought, pretty appropriately, we should pray the prayer of St. Francis of Assisi, the prayer for peace. In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, amen. Lord, make me an instrument of your peace. Where there is hatred, let me so love. Where there is injury, pardon. Where there is doubt, faith. Where there is despair, hope. Where there is darkness, light. Where there is sadness, joy. O divine master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console, to be understood as to understand, to be loved, as to love. For it is in giving that we receive. It is in pardoning that we are pardoned, and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
[00:01:15] Speaker B: As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Welcome back, Father, and you again. We've been a little bit on the road with a few telecasts. We've been using Zoom or teams or whatever to interview some guests far and wide, and that's been a great experience. I really enjoyed our conversation with Ruth Nelson, the bringing of the pietat to the world's fair in 1964. So that medium has given us new opportunities. But it's also good to be back sitting here in Brooklyn, be at home and have our own home guests. So today, joining us is Tim Cesari, the president of St. Francis College. I got to know Tim a little bit early on in his tenure when I was there just for a visit, which coincided with, really has taken some temporary responsibilities, but those temporary responsibilities became a little more permanent, and the college was facing some difficulty and came in with a turnaround plan, but has done such a remarkable job of bringing that college to life again that the board asked him to continue on. And so, Tim, you're very, very welcome here today.
[00:02:24] Speaker C: Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here.
[00:02:26] Speaker B: Bishop Tim, you and I, we have some conversations, often enough about the value of a catholic education. And through St. John's context. We talk about the continuum of catholic education, and that's something that you and I have spoken about a lot, that we have our system of schools in academies, at elementary levels, at high school levels, but that catholic colleges do provide an important piece in our catholic identity. And so as we start a new academic year, why don't we talk a little bit about that value of a catholic education and higher education?
[00:02:56] Speaker C: Sure. My pleasure. You know, I think the catholic voice should be the voice of the Catholics and not have other people speak on behalf of Catholics. Many people have views on religion, and if some people are just bad at religion, that doesn't mean religion is bad. The people paint sometimes with a very broad brush. I think that, you know, bishop, the way you represent the faith and the way I represent the faith, I think is a very healthy approach to welcoming students, especially at my college, into a world that has a faith background and a very strong faith background. That's not to say that it's dismissing other faiths and other beliefs to the contrary. The word Catholicism, you know, in its true sense, is about a community, and we bring everyone in the community into our college, and we welcome them. And if they want to practice their faith, they are more than welcome. Actually, they are encouraged to do so because we believe faith is important. If you think about all the trials and tribulations that face our young people today, which are well documented, I don't need to go into the details. Mental health issues, social media issues, the drug culture, and on and on. You would not be surprised to see how many of our students turn to the faith for strength and to have that center core that fills in gaps in their lives that are palpable and exist. So I'm very comfortable with the reality that we are a faith based college, and I'm not going to run from my Catholicism. It says St. Francis right on the front door.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:04:36] Speaker C: It's kind of hard to not accept and acknowledge 800 years of franciscan tradition and belief, which actually, if you study franciscan tradition and the history of St. Francis, it depicts more of what we encourage today, which is interfaith dialogue, which is reaching across the aisle and about community and coming together. So I'm very comfortable in that. And if anyone thinks that the path to increasing enrollment in their college is by denying their faith, I think they need to rethink that.
[00:05:09] Speaker B: I think those are some very good points. So, first of all, on the interfaith portion, often we say in social services, but also in higher education that we're doing this because we're catholic not necessarily because you're catholic. We see as Catholics this important mission of sharing knowledge, of witnessing to the truth. And so we do it and we serve all because of what we believe and who we are, and we do that strongly as ourselves. And something you and I have spoken about is that, again, one of the ways that you've been seeking to build up St. Francis is by that sense of saying, well, what makes us different? And that's what we should focus on. You know, there are many colleges around, many be the private or public. You know, we have a very good cuny system, a very good sunni system. What makes us different? It's who we are and how we're founded in that vision. And so there's that catholic foundation and identity, and we say, yeah, we're not going to run away from it. It's who we are. We celebrate it. That's what we bring. But the other thing is you have the richer experience of it because you have that franciscan experience of Catholicism. So the experience of St. Francis himself and these 800 years of franciscan spirituality, thank God for the Franciscan Brothers of Brooklyn, right? Yeah, I taught in summer school, and I was in seminary in St. Anthony's High School. That was a summer job of mine. St. Anthony's High School out east and St. Francis prepier, just powerhouses. And St. Francis College has this deep tradition and has produced many, many good people who serve in leadership, in business, and various elements of community life here in Brooklyn, in Queens, and even in the church.
[00:06:56] Speaker C: Right. Exactly. That's the point, bishop. We produce students that have to go into the community and serve. And in order for those students to effectively serve in the community, they have to represent the community, don't they? If you think about our nursing program, our nursing program, 300 some odd students speaking all languages, all faiths, all cultures, they have to serve the people in our queens, Brooklyn, Manhattan community, the people who are serviced by those hospitals speak different languages, have different cultures, and our nurses need to understand that. And the majority of them do have a strong faith background. This even plays more heavily on the international basis. International students gravitate toward, you know, our faith background. They understand it. It's comfortable. There's clarity in that, and they see it as a resource. You know, you mentioned the CUNY system, the SUNY system. I believe competition is wonderful. I was born in east New York. My dad worked for the city of New York in the streets. My mom never finished high school. The one thing I didn't have growing up was options. One of the most wonderful things you can offer someone that didn't grow up with options is an option. And I want to position St. Francis College merely as an option and an option of choice for students who are looking for what we have to offer. And what we have to offer is different than the CUNY system in state systems. But not every student is right for that. So if I can present an option with an attainable price point that says, you know what, for a few more bucks, I can have a private education, faith based, and get the attention that I want. Different than, let's say, a cUny or SUNY system. College is 2000 undergraduate students, a couple of thousand graduate students. And I walk the halls and I pretty much know every student in the college, similar to where you probably knew the students at St. Anthony's and the like. So that's the environment we want to build. But it is about serving community. And you have to represent all faces, all names, all religions, all cultures or languages in that community. I mean, we're in Brooklyn.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: You know, we often say that the diocese of Brooklyn is a diocese of immigrants. We're proud to say how many languages we celebrate mass in. And prior to our podcast record, you were mentioning, Tim, how many languages are spoken on the campus? How many is that?
[00:09:18] Speaker C: Again, there are over 40 languages spoken on campus, representing over 70 countries.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: It's incredible to see that, you know, your college represents, as you say, the community that you serve and the community that we're participating in.
[00:09:31] Speaker B: You're in Brooklyn and Queens. This is Brooklyn and Queens. Exactly. Exactly. And you're serving Brooklyn and Queens. And you're serving the people who, as you say, will serve Brooklyn and Queens. Like, they're going. We're serving them because they're going to go back and serve. And that's, that's a great, great gift.
[00:09:46] Speaker C: To the, one of our largest growing populations on a percentage basis, or muslim females. They run our clubs, our organizations. They have jobs on campus, and they absolutely come to school college every day with hope and faith and wide eyes. And we love having them. And we love having them part of our community.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: You know, you was talking before about price point, and something you and I have spoken about in the past is that with the regular financial aid that's out there in the world, plus what can be given in terms of scholarship and assistance, it is indeed a very attainable price point for so many families. And it gives that option of a St. Francis degree, but also the programs and the academic work that you offer. So even now you're in a new location. It's a smaller location, but it's sort of a modern location. It's sort of built in the fashion of modern businesses and things like that, but it also enabled you to build out new programs and technology. You want to talk about some of those things.
[00:10:52] Speaker C: The college is here as part of the community, very important part of the community. We just moved a few blocks from where we were. We were on Remsen, now we're on Livingston. It's a short.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: It's still in the heart of a lot of foot traffic and car traffic. You never know.
[00:11:08] Speaker C: You would never know.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: It's a Brooklyn center point.
[00:11:10] Speaker C: So we're there to produce nurses, teachers, doctors, lawyers, mental health professionals, and on and on. And in order to do that at an attainable price point, we have to make hard decisions. Our students commute to the college mainly by subway. They have other responsibilities outside of college. Family responsibilities, part time jobs and the like. They want to come to campus. And if they want to stay on campus all day and participate in the club activities and enjoy the beautiful state of the art campus with wide open spaces, beautiful sunlight on Livingston street, they are absolutely welcome to stay as long as they like. Then there are the other students that want to come to class, perhaps participate to a lesser degree in campus activities, and then get on with their lives. In order to do that, we have to make decisions about what the investments need to be in the education and what the students don't necessarily need. So, for example, to have a state of the art, high tech, 4000 plus square foot nursing lab with simulations that could be performed on campus is very, very important to that future that I described. I want our parents to know that when they pay tuition at St. Francis College, it's an investment. It's not a cost. The example I always use is this. It's a podcast, so you can't see it. But this shirt I'm wearing, it's a very nice shirt, but I bought this shirt. I'll wear it 30 times and then perhaps I'll throw it away or donate it. This is a cost. College is an investment. This shirt is never going to give me back any money, but the investment in college will. So that little bit more in the price point, to go to St. Francis College, as opposed to CUNY, is an investment that will pay back in multiples that you cannot count. But it's so important to drive to success. But it's an investment and it will pay back. And that's. That's the thinking behind investing in a state of the art campus. The highest tech an open atmosphere, full transparency. Students get the best of everything that they need.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: But you have a pretty nice staircase. I have to say that. And that's. It's sort of a sitting staircase, right? It's a showpiece. And of course, you have a beautiful chapel. Again, you have a prayer room for people who pray in other faiths, but you have a beautiful chapel. Keeping on that franciscan spirituality we have, franciscan brothers, is still connected to you both on the board level and in campus ministry. So we're so glad for that. You mentioned the lab. I had the chance to see some of that. It's amazing. And you mentioned a few other innovations. Esports, digital humanities lab, improving student success and retention. Tell me about some of those initiatives.
[00:14:00] Speaker C: Sure. So, you know, I had come on board just about two years ago. I approached the college in four phases. Phase one was deconstructing things that no longer were serving the college, which is painful. It's painful.
[00:14:12] Speaker B: It's painful. Those are tough decisions, but that is part of life that we have to do so that we can really be faithful to the mission.
[00:14:19] Speaker A: That's the gospel of pruning the vine, right? To pruning that which was not working.
[00:14:23] Speaker C: Part of being a college president is you. You have to accept that. You have to make decisions, even though they're unpleasant, but they're important for the preservation of the mission. They are extremely important for the preservation of the mission. Phase two was reconstruction, rebuilding the college, understanding, separating wheat from chaff, saying this is important. This is not. Or less. I won't say not important. I'll say less important, right? Because people have belief systems and, you know, they trusted in certain legacy things, but those legacy things no longer translate to the modern world. Phase three, which we're just entering now, is growth.
That's why at this point, I feel, I say St. Francis College can now go on offense. We've been playing defense for two years now. We're shifting to offense. So what are we doing? We're introducing things like esports, which is very attractive to students. They could participate in a pseudo athletic environment using modern technology, and we have the state of the art technology to support esports. Digital humanities. You know, you think about, you know, you say digital humanities, it sounds almost like an oxymoron, but students need to be taught in the modern way. They need to understand humanities using modern technologies, understanding the world of. I know everyone talks about this perhaps a little too much, but I'll dare say AI. How do we use AI in these expressions? Because humanities involved a lot of research, a lot of paper writing. And in order to get authentic work out of students, you need to understand how AI works in their life. Chat, GPT and the like. So creating a digital humanities lab so that we can preserve the efficacy and the importance of humanities, but at the same time embrace technologies that support it. I think that that's a very, very important combination that will benefit our students in the long run. Introducing engineering to St. Francis College, that's been a huge step. We now have an agreement with Manhattan College where students can attend St. Francis College for two years, get a general studies degree, and then junior and senior year go to Manhattan College and get degrees in engineering. And that's something that's very important to introduce to our students. Computer science.
We now have a bachelor's program and a master's program in computer science. Extremely important because that balance of. So you're talking to someone who doesn't come from higher ed. I worked in the corporate world for three decades. I can tell you on many occasions I have turned to figures in literature and the humanities to help me through some very difficult times in business. That foundational understanding of the importance of liberal arts, humanities, whatever you want to call it, is very important no matter what career you choose. So I am very strong and supportive of the humanities. At the same time, I want our students, and I say this openly in open houses and things. I think it's important that when you finish your education, whether it's a bachelor's degree, a master's degree or PhD, whatever it is, think about finishing with a noun to be able to say I am a and fill that in with a noun. I am a nurse, I am a teacher, I am a doctor, I am a lawyer, I am an accountant, I am an engineer. That's very, very important. Here's why. When I graduated college, matter of fact, we graduated St. John's the same time.
[00:17:43] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:17:44] Speaker C: It was just important to get a college degree back then. If you had a college degree, you were fine. Things have changed. Now you need to specialize, you need to have a professional degree because life presents mobility opportunities now that didn't exist. So if you're in New York and you're an accountant, fine. If you're an advertising executive like I was in New York, and let's say your life takes you to Norman, Oklahoma, there's really no advertising industry in Norman, Oklahoma. But if you're an accountant in New York and life takes you to Norman, Oklahoma, guess what? You are in Norman, Oklahoma. You're an accountant. If you're a teacher in New York, you're a teacher in Oklahoma. If you're an engineer in New York, you're an engineer in Oklahoma. That translates globally as well, because students have to be global minded. So that concept of what it means to be a professional and what your goals should be at the end of your education, I think those two things need to come together so that the price point, the experience, the sense of community, the faith background, and being able to finish that sentence with a noun is the complete package and the purpose of an education.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: I'd like to bring just a point. You were mentioning about your collaboration with the Manhattan College, and just even as Bishop began the podcast, we were talking about catholic grammar schools, catholic high schools, and sort of that process. And how important is that collaborating with catholic grammar schools, catholic high schools, in the role of St. Francis College? I mean, you have sort of invested interest that catholic high schools and catholic grammar schools also succeed because there's that sort of a pathline that one graduates from the next. And I'd imagine still many catholic high school graduates are thinking, well, what are my catholic college options? Do you work in some regard in terms of providing opportunities between those forms of education?
[00:19:34] Speaker C: Thank you for that question. I've got to tell you, one of the advantages I have in coming into higher ed at this point in my career is that I look at things with fresh eyes, and I had an opportunity last year to visit many of the catholic high schools. And I was even at the graduation mass of the catholic high schools. I'll say this, this is not at the exclusion of anyone else, because all are welcome and we serve the entire community. If I were a parent contemplating whether or not to send my child in Brooklyn as an example to catholic high school or not, I would find every way I could to send my student to a catholic high school. When I walk into the catholic high schools, I see a spirit, I see an energy. I see an enthusiasm. The students look comfortable. They look like they know they belong. They have a sense of pride. They feel valued. They ask great questions, and they know that high school is just one step, that there's another step. College. There's no question they are going to college. I see it in their faces. I see it in their enthusiasm. So even though over the years, we have lost some of the connection with the catholic high schools, and by the way, I just want to be clear. By definition, I'm not saying that the students are catholic. Many of the students in the catholic high schools are not catholic, just as the majority of students in my college are not catholic. It's an environment and an opportunity that produces people that can serve the community in the way the community needs to be served. Part of our charism is to embrace people of all faiths who want to give back to the community. So that linkage between elementary school in high school and college with respect to Catholicism and being a catholic college, but not necessarily catholic students, they pick up, you know, the pieces of what it means to be a good Catholic, a person who serves the community without necessarily having to declare that they are or aren't catholic. I think that misses the point entirely. You know, knowing the life of Jesus, I think many Catholics kind of forget that he wasn't a Catholic necessarily.
That's an interesting point of emulating his lifestyle, which then became the Catholicism that we worship today.
[00:21:53] Speaker B: So I think that continuum becomes very, very important, and I appreciate your being present to us at the high school level. I was so glad you came. Just high school students who were there at that graduation mass, by the time we have it in the spring, have already made their selections, although some of them are still panicking and trying to search in the spring. But it gives a face and a name, because what we want them to experience is that what you're experiencing at a high school, you can continue to experience in a place like St. Francis College. And we had you and actually Queen's College, those were the two colleges that were able to respond last year, just so that when people go there, when they go from our high schools into the college, they can jump right in and be at home because they've already seen somebody whom they know. And yes, in terms of the non Catholics, you know, early on, you said you want the voice of the Catholics to be the voice of the Catholics. And so basically, even those who are not Catholic have now an intellectual and experiential experience of what it means to be Catholic so that they can speak about Catholicism in an informed way and not just as its portrayed. I want to ask you a question, and I want to make an observation. You spoke about, you know, these last two years on defense, new year on offerings. Tell me about enrollment. How are you doing these days, and how is it going at the beginning of a new semester?
[00:23:18] Speaker C: So I'm happy to report that enrollment is strong, despite the well publicized FAFSA debacle of websites not working and information from the government not getting to our students. That's an important point, because about half of our students rely on the Pell grants, which is the federal government grant, which is associated with the FAFSA application. So that delay, we were worried that would hurt enrollment, but happy to report that Rob Oliva, who many people know just by name, but he's sort of my right hand man at the college. He runs the areas that are concerned with enrollment, admissions. His group has done a wonderful job so that our enrollment is at least as good as it was last year. You know, it's interesting the way enrollment is calculated in higher ed. You know, I'm learning every day more and more. There's kind of the reporting number. What is a student? How many credits do you have to have to be a student, et cetera, et cetera. But on a like, for like basis, we're probably maybe a little ahead of last year. In addition to that, and this is part of, like, going on offense, we've got a wonderful graduate school now, graduate program, which is crucially important, especially in today's education environment. A degree beyond a bachelor's degree is critical for success. And being able to offer all the programs that we offer now on the graduate level has literally opened the doors of our college to even more students and international students as well. You know, the interesting thing about graduate students, and, you know, this is obvious to some, but not being from higher ed, it wasn't as obvious to me. Graduate students are adults. You know, you don't, housing isn't an issue. Jobs and things are not an issue. And they're wonderful to have on campus because it just builds your academic offering. And also, students can contemplate staying with St. Francis College, whether they're in, let's say, education. We have a wonderful education program that we've invested in quite a bit. Literacy is the number one topic now that's being discussed in Washington. Some of our representatives visit the college regularly and help us with those efforts. They connect literacy to incarceration rates. The higher the illiteracy, the higher the incarceration rate. And I think that there's true merit in that because reading opens the door to just about everything. So the education program, offering, the graduate programs, the engineering programs, so the enrollment, I'm happy to say we've got thousands and thousands of students and this point in my life to wake up every morning and come to a college campus and see thousands of students come in every day with energy and enthusiasm, wanting to know how do I become a nurse? How do I become a doctor, how do I become a teacher? And in a safe environment with a faith background where they feel welcome and they feel comfortable and they feel wholesome and they see me and my staff walking around and they know that there are people there who are watching every step of the way. It's a very rewarding experience, and I hope that emanates through me to the students and to the parents and the community at St. Francis College because I think we've got a real special thing going on there.
[00:26:22] Speaker B: That's amazing. That's great. And, you know, it brings me to my point, my observation, to say that you have at least as good an enrollment as last year is saying an awful lot, because I think last year you had a very large, if not the largest graduating class.
[00:26:37] Speaker C: That's correct.
[00:26:38] Speaker B: That's quite impressive. And I had the privilege of being at your graduation. Thank you for that invitation. And, you know, that was just a remarkable experience. And I'll tell you why. It was great to see the kids. They're not kids. They're 22 years old, right.
It was great to see the young adults graduate.
[00:26:55] Speaker C: I do that all the time as well. I call them kids. They're young adults.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: But more importantly, it was amazing to see the families, to see the pride the people lined up outside. It was at the King's Theater. There was pride and happiness. This was a big moment for a lot of families because that day came after overcoming many odds and hurdles and in a partnership, families, students and university, that they came. And now those young people are either continuing their education, as you say, in the masters or out in the field, and they're doing us proud, if you don't mind my putting it that way, they're doing us proud. And the other thing, as you were talking about the graduate program, that, too is a service, a great service to our community, to our schools, to our teachers, whether it be the catholic school teachers or teachers in public schools, again, many have to go back to keep earning, to keep developing in those graduate programs. And this gives a chance for people who had been in education but want to return to the field. The college gives a chance for many adults to again build and serve our community.
[00:28:06] Speaker C: You know, Bishop, with that observation and that story about graduation, what you're really telling is the true immigrant story of this country and especially this city. That look of pride on the parents faces is the same look of pride on the parents faces 50, 60, 40, 30 years ago when they had a first generation of students, our experience, who made it something that will never be taken away, something that puts you on equal footing with everyone else. You have that college degree, and that that's a milestone. And the parents are so proud that the decision they made to come to America. The promise was fulfilled. The decision was the right one. And they can stand there with pride and say, God bless America, because we're giving this opportunity. Most of my students are first generation students. Not all. There's a large assortment of students who have parents who have professional degrees and the like.
[00:29:08] Speaker B: And just the programs you offer are very attractive.
[00:29:11] Speaker C: Absolutely. And to see that story and to see those faces. You know, you mentioned that graduation last year at King's Theater where we had the largest graduation in the history of St. Francis College. I was on that stage and I shook almost 400, 5500 students hands in the undergraduation. And people say to me, boy, that was a lot. I said, you know what? I would have done that all day long. All day long. Because those young adults who walk across that stage, that handshake is kind of the seal that says, you did it. And they turn and they look into the audience and their parents cheer and they put their hands in the air and they say, mom, dad, aunt, uncle, parent, guardian, whatever it is, we did it. We did it right. Even though the student did it, there's a sense of we. And then afterward, the parents, they want to come up to me and thank me, and I say, I didn't do. I didn't. You did. You did all of it. You know, you did it all. Thank you. Thank you for being part of my community and for understanding that we've got a beautiful place here. And you know what? Come back to the graduate program. Stay with us. So that story is an immigrant story. It's a story of New York, it's a story of Brooklyn, and it's a story of success. And, you know, you mentioned the famous people that graduated from a college, and that's all wonderful. We put their plaque on the wall and we celebrate that. But I also put on equal footing with them, the unsung heroes, those nurses that got us through Covid, those teachers who taught our students, who continue to teach our students, all the people in the criminal justice system who fight for justice, because that's part of our catholic belief as well. We need to keep fighting for a more just society. Those are franciscan values, those are catholic values, and we've lived it, so we understand it deeply. That's why I feel the catholic voice should be the catholic voice, not someone else telling us what we think, what we feel, or what we believe.
[00:31:14] Speaker B: Thank you, Tim, for joining us today, and thanks for the great work that you and all of the staff, the faculty, the board of trustees, the franciscan brothers, thanks to all those who do different kinds of work in the college. Thank you for adding to our community, serving our community in such an important way. And thanks to all of you for joining us for another edition of big city Catholics. I'm going to be either pre recording or doing short recordings because I'll be going away on retreat for the next couple of of weeks. For two weeks I'll be actually to keep that franciscan spirit alive. I will be in Assisi in the land of Francis, and I can assure you that you'll be in my prayers in those days. And all of you as well who listen in on big city Catholics. I ask you to pray for me. It's a retreat for our priesthood. Pray for the priests who are on retreat and we look forward to that feast of St. Francis. Maybe I'll close with asking God's blessing upon you, sort of. It's a. A blessing I use often the blessing from the book of numbers, but it has that franciscan spirit and I'll pray it the way that I understand it would have been in the early days of franciscan spirituality. May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you. May the Lord look upon you with his kindness and grant you peace. And may the blessing of Almighty God, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit descend upon you this day and remain with you always.
[00:32:42] Speaker A: Amen. Thank you bishop. Thank you Tim. We really appreciate your joining us and engaging the podcast and wanting to be part of it. Thanks also to rob Oliva for helping to facilitate this. We hope that you'll join us again next week as we continue our diocesan podcast, God blessed.
