Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: Welcome back to another edition of our diocesan podcast, Big City Catholics, with Bishop Robert Brennan, the diocesan bishop of Brooklyn and Queens, and myself, Father Christopher Henry. Today we're joined a very special guest, the Bishop of Columbus, Ohio, Bishop Earl Fernandez, who's joining us to talk about the Religious Workforce Protection Act. And we have a great interview with him planned. We thank him for being with us. Bishop, before we begin, we'll join in prayer and there's a lot on our minds and we pray for our newly ordained priests and all the good things that are happening here in the diocese. We can bring them to prayer through the intercession of our Blessed Mother. In the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Amen. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
[00:00:55] Speaker B: In the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Amen. What a joyful and blessed week it's been.
[00:01:00] Speaker A: It was a packed weekend and we went last week from solemnity to solemnity.
It was a feast of religious themes. It was a great, great experience. But it's also nice to take a breath and say wow.
And enjoy all the good things I said at the ordination. The highlight of the jubilee year for me was the ordination of the seven priests at the Co Cathedral of St Joseph on Saturday. Wasn't that a wonderful celebration? Celebration.
[00:01:25] Speaker B: It was a beautiful, beautiful celebration. And to see the church at full capacity and even people downstairs. Bishop, we had a TV set up for people to participate downstairs. Just filled with joy, filled with love, filled with excitement. A beautiful liturgy indeed. Thank you.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: We're so glad for the seven new priests. They're going to get right to work. They really are generous men. I'm very proud of them and I look forward to working with them, as do all of our priests. We have a wonderful presbyterate here. Some great, great priests. I mentioned that in the hom.
I was so moved by the number of priests who were there as well and appreciative of that. These seven joined that great fraternity of priests that Brooklyn has a reputation for, this fraternity of priests. And I'm glad to see them join those ranks.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: And I know part of our conversation with Bishop Fernandez. We'll talk about this in a bit. Is that idea of the international priests that represent our diocese. And it was nice to see them represented certainly at the ordination. Just a great showing. I'm not sure what the final count was in terms of the priests that were present. But it was certainly a great showing. When that sanctuary fills with priests, it's just so stunning to see.
[00:02:34] Speaker A: How true. How true. It was also a big weekend for you. So on Saturday night, and I haven't had a chance to ask you this privately yet, on Saturday night, you had a celebration. It was a bittersweet one. You know, it was a farewell, but it was also the celebration of your 10th anniversary. How did everything go Saturday for you?
[00:02:49] Speaker B: It was beautiful. Thank you for asking. You know, I mentioned in my homily that most priests don't celebrate their 10th anniversary. Bishop, did you celebrate. Have some sort of a celebration for your 10th?
[00:02:59] Speaker A: Quiet.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. It's a very quiet thing. I mentioned that, you know, it was the option was to celebrate my farewell or to celebrate the priesthood, which is the reason why I was signed in the parish. And so I chose to sort of highlight the priesthood. And on the weekend of Saints Peter and Paul was a great weekend to celebrate that gift of our faith. And we had about 400 people came to Mass, which was really stunning. And then we had a reception downstairs. And I was just overwhelmed by the love of the people of God. And I thank you for asking. It just was a really beautiful weekend for me. But, you know, we've been talking about this when you and I mentioned about a month ago about my new assignment, and it's sort of this period of like mourning for, you know, it's like the extended wake service, you know, so I'm so, so excited. I'm so blessed to have had this opportunity here. But I'm really, really excited to start at St. Joan of Arc.
[00:03:51] Speaker A: It's time.
[00:03:52] Speaker B: Let's get going, you know, let's get going.
[00:03:54] Speaker A: You got a big job ahead of you, and I apprec.
Taking it on. So it'll be exciting. I think you'll enjoy it as well. I think you'll have a great time there. One of the other things I did while you were celebrating on Saturday night, I celebrated with the Haitian community because every year on the Feast of Our Lady Perpetual Help, June 27, we have a Mass. And this year we were kind of bumped because the Feast of the Sacred Heart took priority over Perpetual Help. So we transferred it, as it were, and we had our Mass on Saturday evening at the Basilica of Our lady of Perpetual Health. It was really an upbeat evening. I enjoyed it a great, great deal. In the midst of. At the end, I did have a chance to talk with the community about some of their concerns. When I was in San Diego I was asked a lot about what's the immigration situation here in Brooklyn and Queens. And I mentioned that a lot of the issues are right now with the Haitian community. I mean, all of our communities are affected.
But, you know, many of the Haitians came in under a program, a TPS program. And now all of a sudden that's taken. And so there were some tough choices ahead. And Archbishop Broglio, when we were together in San Diego, issued a letter on behalf of all the bishops, because when we were together, we were in sort of retreat mode. So he took the opportunity to speak on our behalf and boy, we're really glad that he did that. The theme he captured is he. He says it, as your shepherds, we're united with you. As your shepherds, we walk with you. We want to stay in solidarity. The pain and the suffering that many are feeling is real. And so we stand in solidarity. And that's true across the board. So we wanted to make use of that. But this week I'd like to spend some time talking about some pending legislation regarding the religious work of isa many of our priests. We've talked about this before.
Many of our priests are here on that religious worker visa. Usually after two of those visas, they start the process if they're going to stay for a green card. If they're not going to stay, many of them will then at that point head back to their host countries. And both things happen because some of the priests are here on loan, and some of the priests, particularly some who are ordained frat isis, they came over on student visas, but now they belong to us. So we need those guys to be able to stay. And so we're especially grateful that Bishop Fernandez is here, the 13th Bishop of Columbus, who succeeds me in Columbus. Welcome, Bishop Fernandez.
[00:06:29] Speaker C: It's great to be with you.
[00:06:30] Speaker A: It's a great opportunity just to say how amazing the growth continues, the good things that you are doing. I'm hearing great things about evangelization, about vocations, about campus ministries, some great, great things. We'll be talking about the religious visa program, but even there, one of our federal issues has been the education choice credit, but that seems to be dropped in the Senate. We'll see what we can do in reconciliation. I hope it may come back, you.
[00:06:56] Speaker C: Know, I certainly hope so. In Ohio, we do have universal vouchers.
[00:06:59] Speaker A: And that's what I wanted to say. Congratulations to you. You are building.
[00:07:03] Speaker C: Exactly. So in Ohio, we have universal vouchers. And in the late 60s, the Catholic bishops of Ohio, because there were so many kids in Catholic schools worked out public busing for Catholic school students as well. Now, just last week, Franklin county, where Columbus is located, a judge ruled the ed choice, the voucher program, unconstitutional. But likely that'll be appealed all the way to the Ohio Supreme Court, which will uphold it. So we're not too worried. It doesn't have any lasting effects on the upcoming school year, but we're really blessed in Ohio, so we are in Columbus. You mentioned the growth. Columbus is the fastest growing city in the United States. The number of Catholics has nearly doubled to half a million in the three years since I became bishop.
Our school capacity is at 90%.
So even though like many other diocese around the country, we've had to merge and close parishes at the same time, we're in the process of building at least two new elementary schools and a new high school to accommodate the tremendous growth. And many of the schools, existing schools that we have, are doing campaigns to expand. So it's, it's really a wonderful thing. And as more and more people come to Columbus and we've seen the growth in vocations, we've gone from 17 seminarians to 40 in just three years. I've ordained eight men to the priesthood in the last two years. We've seen the growth in vocations. We've seen in campus ministry at the Ohio State University, 20, 30 and 50 converts the last three years. So, you know, there's tremendous growth. Twelve hundred students coming to mass every Sunday and with it also growth in our ethnic communities. So for example, our Hispanic population grew 20% in a single year. For the Vigil of Pentecost, I had kind of a Mass with all the different ethnic groups. And we have all kinds of African Catholics from both east and West Africa. We have Indian Catholics, Filipinos, Asians, as well as Latinos and Portuguese speakers. And so we filled the whole cathedral. I actually wound up doing the Mass in Latin and we had the first reading in Spanish, second reading in French, the third reading in a Ghanaian dialect, the fourth reading in Portuguese and the fifth reading in Tamil and the Gospel in English. And every different ethnic group did the celebration. So we had, did the music for the celebration. So it was wonderful. Really. You really got to see the universality of the church. And I had about 30 priests come celebrate. But in Columbus, and I imagine you see this in Brooklyn, you've got a lot of immigrants and you've got a lot of religious priests and a lot of foreign born priests who are working as missionaries here in the United States to help minister to and Tend that portion of God's flock from the various countries to help the immigrants, you know, integrate better and sometimes their linguistic and cultural barriers, but also to provide for, unfortunately, a shortfall in our needs for priests and religious in our schools, hospitals, and especially parishes.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: And really that's what brings us here today. We really do rely on these priests who are coming from different countries. We've become the mission territory, and as you noted, they service in two ways. First of all, we really need their assistance in many of our English speaking parishes. But a lot of the priests from other countries are serving the people, the vastly growing populations who are coming from many of these countries.
[00:10:11] Speaker C: I admire these priests. I mean, they really do have a missionary spirit. They help us overcome some of the ideology that plagues the church of the United States. Because these guys just want to preach the gospel and they want to be close to the people and it's really beautiful to see. And life for them here is hard. Some of them have never seen a microwave or a television. It's hard for them to be away from home, from their parents for the first time. But they're truly missionaries. I keep telling sometimes people say, well, I don't understand this priest accent. And I say, you know what? This priest has come all the way around the world to bring you and your family the sacraments. You know, there has to be a little bit of flexibility. So a lot of our missionary priests, we make them do English acquisition classes, and it really does help. It take some time to assimilate, but they're making the adjustment. And the people of God, generally speaking, are very, very grateful for their presence. Unfortunately, we risk losing some of them. And the reason we lose them is not because they don't want to be here. Because in April of 2023, then Biden administration changed a rule governing religious worker visas. So religious worker visas typically are good for 30 months, and then you can renew for another 30 months or five years. Then a religious priest or sister would apply for a more permanent residence, EB4 visa or green card status. And usually that would be possibly a path to either permanent residence or citizenship. And that grants stability to parishes, to the ministry, to a bishop who wants to assign them to a parish. But the rule changed in April 2023, so that if your R1 visa expires before you receive a judgment about green card, permanent residency, or any of that, you have to return to your country of origin for a full year.
And this is causing a disruption of service religious services around the country. And so Columbus dies these on A small scale compared to what, Brooklyn or, say, new?
[00:12:07] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. It's already affecting us greatly. We've lost a couple of religious priests. Their religious communities. Now, their religious communities could adapt a little bit more easily because they have missions all around the world. And so they were able to adjust. But it's a loss to us because we had good priests here and we lost their presence and good work they do. It's affecting us because sometimes we've had students too, who came over. They were on a student visa, but then after they were ordained. So these priests were ordained for the diocese, not just externs. And some of those priests have already been affected by it. We have one fellow, we're making the best use of it, he's studying canon law. But it becomes a problem. And the when you look at the horizon, the numbers of priests this would affect is large. Now, there are some remedies. You've been working very hard in terms of a legislative remedy. Right.
[00:12:57] Speaker C: Columbus, which is much less dependent, say, than Brooklyn or New York. We're going to lose 21 priests and 13 religious because of this kind of glitch. And so we've been working for a legislature, legislative, permanent legislative fix. A couple years ago, Senator Collins, a Republican from Maine, and Senator Kaine, Democrat from Virginia, began working on addressing this issue, working with the usccb but not a lot of progress had been made. And then after the elections last November, in early December, maybe It was even December 1st, I met with Congressman Mike Kerry in Columbus and I told him the problem. And he said, this is an easy fix. We could get broad bipartisan support for this. And so, in fact, in early April, simultaneously, a House version and a Senate version of the bill, what's known as the Religious Workforce Protection act, was introduced. So Congressman Kerry, Salazar and Neal and some others in the House and Senators Kaine, Colin Risch and Graham, they have sponsored the Senate bill. What essentially it would do would be if you're here on a religious worker visa and you've applied for a EB4 visa, permanent residence, instead of having to go back to your country for a year, you could remain in the United States and be able to continue your ministry until your case is heard, then your case will be heard. And if the visa is granted, it's granted. If the visa is not granted, then you go back to your country. But it would grant some stability. Because where do we need priests and religious right now? Well, certainly in Columbus, and I imagine it's like in Brooklyn, you need priests and parishes, but we have a Huge shortage of school teachers and nurses.
And so we have a lot of women religious, also foreign born, but who are working in our as teachers in our schools and working in our healthcare, especially nursing home facilities, and we risk losing them. And that only creates a worse shortage, worse pastoral care for the sick, the elderly, young people at our schools. And so I met also with Senator Bernie Moreno, who actually is a Colombian immigrant, but who's one of the new senators from Ohio. And he himself said this is an easy fix. And so the especially what the bill proposes to do is to create a special category for religious workers. I mean, Hindu priests are also happy. You know, you don't find someone who speaks ancient Sanskrit so easily. And of course, they have linguistic differences and cultural differences. But Muslims and Jews also, they're imams and rabbis, could also benefit from the bill. This is why there's broad bipartisan support.
Sometimes people are skeptical of immigration policy because they're like, well, who are these people in their country? Where are they going to be working? Who's going to be caring for them? But in the case of a religious worker, we know all that. We know exactly who they are. We know where they're going to be living. We know what their employment is. The sponsoring diocese or religious institute promises not only their salary but also their health care benefits.
And of course, religious contribute something positive to the society. They help build up the community. They help immigrants to integrate. They help them sometimes to find work. They minister to the sick or to the young. As educators. They do all of those things which help keep our community strong, especially in a time of great change. This is a common sense approach.
Is it the comprehensive immigration reform that everyone wants? No, and it doesn't intend to be. But it is a worthwhile endeavor because, again, religious workers do a highly specialized type of work, which in our Catholic theology, nobody else can do.
[00:16:35] Speaker B: Bishop Fernandez, I appreciate, you know, all the work that you've been doing, too, in the meeting with these different representatives and the bipartisan support it seems that this bill has. But yet it's still currently stuck in committee. No. And do we have a timeline or do you have an idea, an estimated idea of when this might.
[00:16:52] Speaker C: We don't. So maybe two or three weeks ago, I spoke with Congressman Jim Jordan's staff. He's a Republican from Ohio. He is the chair of the House Judiciary Committee. So I met with some of his staff locally in Ohio. But I will go to Washington, D.C. on July 24 and meet specifically with his staff who deal with immigration law because it has to get through the House Judiciary Committee, and I think it will in the Senate, I think Lindsey Graham can probably get it through the Senate Judiciary Committee. But in the House, Jim Jordan's support will be critical. Now, Jim Jordan is a very conservative Republican, but at the same time, he sees the value here in Ohio. There's no specific timetable, but his support in the House Judiciary Committee will be critical.
[00:17:37] Speaker A: Great. And it seems that you might have hints that it could also have some support even in the administration.
[00:17:44] Speaker C: Definitely, this is an easy win for Trump and the Trump administration, you know, they've courted Catholics, they courted evangelicals and so on. And so this is a way to say, look, we want to support strong values. They've also kind of gone out there in favoring parental choice and education.
And again, to staff our Catholic schools, we need teachers, and many women religious are amongst our best teachers, whether you're born here or abroad. And so this also, this would be an easy win for the administration to say, look, it's not comprehensive immigration reform. We could think of George W. Bush actually as a Republican, tried to do it, and it cost him a lot of political capital. This isn't going to cost the Trump administration anything. Of course, there are some Republicans who will say, we don't want any more people coming into this country. But as I said, religious workers are very different because they contribute something positively to society. We know who they are, where they're living, that they're employed, that they have health insurance, all those sorts of things, and they're desirous to really be here. And when I talk to them, Right, they're so grateful to be in this country. They really. They're not out there badmouthing the United States of America. They're grateful to be able to be here because many of them actually are even persecuted in their own countries. They appreciate the freedom and the freedom of religion that we have. So this could be an easy win for the Trump administration. And it's got broad, I would say, bipartisan support.
[00:19:10] Speaker A: Well, thank you for. You know, I appreciate your time today because I do think it's important that we really understand it. A lot of people here in Brooklyn and Queens are saying, hey, what are you doing about this? And I'm glad that we are making some progress here. The second thing is, you know, there's still work to be done, and we are very committed to comprehensive immigration reform. Archbishop Broglio issued a great statement before our recent bishops meeting when we were in San Diego together, pointing out the fact that there were so many inconsistencies that we kind of force people into this so called illegal situation. So we want to see comprehensive immigration reform and we'll have a chance to talk about that again. But for now, this is one piece that we're able to fix and we really need to get it done well.
[00:19:58] Speaker C: And that's right. So the Senate bill is Senate 1298 and the House bill is House Resolution 2672. I think your listeners, if they could contact their congressmen or senators, I think this is one of the ways, you know, we're such a polarized society. So it's actually refreshing to see Republicans, Democrats coming together now in the past when immigration has been discussed, sometimes congressmen who say, look, there are people on both sides of the aisle who want this, but we can never get our leadership to allow us everybody's posturing. But when I think about, like the archdiocese in New York, half, nearly half of their priests are foreign born or the Archdiocese of Miami only has about 12 Anglo pastors all around the country. You could think about the situation at the border all around the country. This has a huge impact. Even diocese like salina or like lacrosse, 1/3 of their priests are from India. Ourselves, in terms of the vocation of Christ have to build a culture of vocations.
But this will be a tremendous blow because the lifeblood of the people of God are the sacraments.
[00:21:01] Speaker A: And so important. So important. Well, I know you made a sacrifice to be able to have this conversation with us today, and I know you actually have some meetings involving committees with the usccb. So thank you for making the time and thank you for being with us. It's always a pleasure to talk with you.
[00:21:16] Speaker C: Always a pleasure. Thanks for having me on. God bless you.
[00:21:19] Speaker A: God bless you.
[00:21:20] Speaker B: Thank you, Bishop.
[00:21:21] Speaker A: So, Father Henry, that was quite the interview. I was so glad to have him. He's very knowledgeable on the subject, but he's also very eager to share.
I'm grateful for this opportunity. It is an important issue for us here in Brooklyn and Queens.
[00:21:33] Speaker B: It is. It is. And certainly, you know, as we celebrate and this podcast releases the week of our Independence Day, we recognize the importance of our religious freedom. We recognize the importance of our international unity coming together as a melting pot of many different cultures and countries. And we're so grateful that people like Bishop Fernandez and others are lobbying for this continued assistance.
[00:21:55] Speaker A: Changing gears this weekend, this Sunday, we sort of returned to the Sundays of Ordinary Time. After Pentecost, we were already in the season, but we have all the different feast posts, a few that have added on because of the way the calendar work. So I would say that since the beginning of March, we've been celebrating seasons and feasts and all kinds of wonderful things. But as we step into the summer mode, it's good to also be back in the regular rhythm of ordinary time.
[00:22:23] Speaker B: It certainly is.
[00:22:24] Speaker A: Well, listen, we thank all of our listeners, as always, for being with us for this week's edition of Big City Catholics. We look forward to another edition next Friday. But maybe we'll take this opportunity to close with a prayer and blessing. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Lord, we praise you because you look upon us with love and you guide us in your ways. We ask your blessing upon all those who listen and all of the church in Brooklyn and Queens.
[00:22:55] Speaker B: The Lord be with you and with your spirit.
[00:22:57] Speaker A: May the Lord bless you and keep you. May his face shine upon you and be gracious to you. May he look upon you with kindness and grant you his peace. And may the blessing of Almighty God, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit descend on you and remain with you forever and ever. Amen.
[00:23:11] Speaker B: Amen. Thank you, Bishop, and a very blessed Independence Day to you and to all our listeners. We've got a great summer lineup of episodes to come. We hope that you'll join us each and every week. Thank you, and God bless.
