Episode 178 - Respecting Life at Every Stage

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:10] Speaker B: Hello, and welcome to a special crossover. [00:00:12] Speaker C: Edition of Big City Catholics. I'm your host, Bishop Robert Brennan, Bishop of Brooklyn, serving in Brooklyn and Queens, and I'm glad to be joining you. I was recently invited to join the Respect Life podcast produced by the USCCB Secretariat of Pro Life Affairs. I serve on that committee. The podcast was hosted by Kat Talalis, a member of the staff of the committee, though the version that we will be releasing this week has been edited for time. The full podcast released by the USCCB can be found on Apple Podcasts Spotify and iHeartRadio. A full version of this podcast will also air as a special on Net TV and can be found on YouTube. The topic was end of life issues, a topic very timely for us in New York. [00:01:11] Speaker B: So let's take a listen. [00:01:13] Speaker A: Welcome to the Respect Life Podcast. I am Kat Talalis, and I'm very happy to have Bishop Robert Brennan of Brooklyn here with me to discuss some interesting new topics that we haven't touched on yet in the podcast, namely assisted suicide, palliative care, and hospice, and what Catholics can do to better understand these topics and to share God's truth with their family members and their loved ones. Welcome, Bishop. So grateful to have you on. [00:01:39] Speaker B: Thank you, Kat. First of all, thank you for doing this podcast. It's such a great contribution to the church and really to all of the American society. It's also a privilege. Thank you for inviting me to be on with you. [00:01:52] Speaker A: Well, we're really grateful that you could come on and talk about this. I know that you've been very dedicated member of our Pro Life committee, and specifically on this issue, with the battles you've been facing in your state, we're going to definitely get to that a little later. First, I'd like our audience to know a little bit more about you. One of the questions we always like to start with is how did you become pro life? [00:02:14] Speaker B: You know, I never really considered that question until you gave me the heads up that this could be something we were talking about. And I don't know that it's a very clear distinction. I think in my own family, it was just logic. It wasn't that we were very politically engaged in anything with that matter, but it just was logical. You don't take the life of a child in the womb. I remember I was a young kid, about 11 years old, when Roe v. Wade was made the law of the land. And I remember seeing the bumper stickers in reference to abortion. That was the first time I ever saw that word. And I remember Asking my folks, what is abortion? [00:02:59] Speaker A: And how did they respond? [00:03:01] Speaker B: And yeah, and that's it. They said. I think they very delicately, but very much in the sense of, well, this is the. Explain to me how it has taken the life. It's killing the child before the child is born. I think that's the language. They probably explained it to me. Not spoken was in 1973. My youngest brother was born in May of 1973. So we were awaiting his arrival. [00:03:31] Speaker A: Wow, what timing. Yeah. [00:03:34] Speaker B: So when did I become or any of us become against stealing or when did we become against shooting people? Well, we never really had to think about it until somebody started doing it. [00:03:46] Speaker A: Right. And that's excellent. [00:03:48] Speaker B: That was it. It's just a lot. It's just a logical thing. You just don't do this right where. [00:03:52] Speaker A: That, you know, that law is kind of written on our hearts. I know that other. There's just some of podcasts have expressed the same sentiment that we're kind of born pro life in a sense. We learn later not to be. And so it seems like that's your perspective as well. [00:04:06] Speaker B: Yes, very much so. [00:04:07] Speaker A: And so it sounds like you were raised in a Catholic home. Is that. [00:04:10] Speaker B: Yes. I'm the oldest of five. We never really wore religion on our sleeves. But on the other hand there were certain duties and responsibilities. You know, you went to mass on Sunday. Catholic school was important in my family. I. We moved out to Long island when I was six years old. I had already started school in a Catholic school in the Bronx. They really those in those days, the schools were full on the island and didn't seem to be a possibility of getting into the Catholic schools. And I was miserable. I went to. I started in public school and I just couldn't hack it. I just couldn't hack it. And my parents actually went down to. In those days, the sisters in school also taught me religious ed program, the ccd. And so my, my mom went down and spoke to the sisters when we went for religious instruction. And that was the beginning of Catholic school. So that it just seemed natural. And then the other thing. Judy bound my parents. You were involved because it was the right thing to do. You know, my mother was in Christian Mothers and you, you, you just. Because you should be part of the organizations that are supporting you. The parish, the school, the work of the church. My father there was nocturnal adoration. [00:05:21] Speaker A: Wow. Really? [00:05:22] Speaker B: And so it's not like they have their social life. It's not like the social life revolved around the church. But then again, it kind of revolved around the other parents who happen to be all Catholics and going to Catholic schools and all of that. There's that sense of just Catholic culture and a sense of responsibility and duty. [00:05:40] Speaker A: Yes. So that community kind of being in place in this, you're kind of bred with a sense of responsibility towards your parish, towards the church, To God. Right? [00:05:49] Speaker B: To God. [00:05:49] Speaker A: Right, God. Yeah. [00:05:51] Speaker B: And, yeah, that was the other thing. It was always we, you know, we've taught simple prayers. [00:05:56] Speaker A: We. [00:05:56] Speaker B: We weren't. You know, we didn't. We didn't pray the rosary together at night or anything, but we always had grief before meals and then the bedtime prayers and. And God bless. And then the other thing I can hear even today in the voice of my parents and my grandmother's. Both my grandfathers died early. But, you know, a sense of tremendous gratitude to God. Everything was, well, thank God for this, thank God for that. Yeah. [00:06:21] Speaker A: And that's the disposition we're supposed to have towards God. Right. Is praying, recognizing with gratitude what we've been given and this. That's an interesting theme. The topics we're gonna do today kind of revolve around despair, in a sense. And so there's this necessity for hope and for gratitude and recognizing God working in our lives. So I. I definitely wanna go into that more. Well, I really believe that the bishops who have a truly pastoral heart so often are the best ambassadors for pro life because, you know, individually, what it's like to see people's hearts in the confessional, to see. To baptize their children, to attend to them on their deathbed. And so I think that there's a. [00:07:00] Speaker B: Profundance and really, to see the damage that something like abortion causes. I mean, there's the obvious. The child in the womb, the life that's lost, the taking of human life. But one of the things we. You learn by walking in a parish is you see the harm that it does to the mothers and the terrible burdens that people are carrying. And kind of. They're carrying it abandoned by all those who told them to do it. [00:07:29] Speaker A: It's so true. It's so. It's so true. I mean, we see that on our, you know, team at the US CB Pro Life Secretariat, our work with Project Rachel, and the level of. Of pain and abandonment and rejection that lead up to an abortion decision. And that unfortunately, so often continues. And, you know, women deserve so much better. And that is one message that I really pray that the church continues to amplify and grow, that women can know that even if they have made this decision. The church does not abandon you. We are with you before you make your abortion decision, whether for you, after you make your abortion decision. Because Christ wants to free you, you know, in the sacraments. [00:08:10] Speaker B: That's right. You know, really, when you talk about the prophetic nature of the church, the prophet in the, in the Scriptures had two main responsibilities. One is to kind of challenge the dominant way of thinking, to say, hey, wait a minute, this path is leading us down the path of destruction, you know, to, to speak and testify, witness to the truth. But prophets were also there to pick up the pieces. [00:08:34] Speaker A: Right? That's true. When you think about Elijah and, you. [00:08:37] Speaker B: Know, and Ezekiel and all of that. [00:08:41] Speaker A: Nehemiah. [00:08:42] Speaker B: To give. Nehemiah Ezra. Yeah, exactly. To help people to rebuild, to find hope, to say that hope is not lost, that, yeah, they're the path that led to this. And we have to be honest and acknowledge it. But there's healing. God will not give up on us. [00:08:57] Speaker A: And. [00:08:58] Speaker B: And so that is part of our prophetic role is to help pick up the pieces. [00:09:02] Speaker A: Absolutely. Clearly, he's using your gifts in the Diocese of Brooklyn. I know. We're very grateful to have you there and for your leadership on so many issues in our pro life committee. But also where you're, where you are planted in New York in the Northeast, which as we know, has faced so many particular attacks on human life. Right. Because you faced, you know, a few years ago, it was post dobbs with abortion and just the dramatic laws that allowed, you know, such extremes of abortion. And then more recently about, I think a few months ago and over the summer, in June, I think your legislature passed the bill that would allow physician assisted suicide. And I know that's something that you had raised the alarm about and are continuing to, to speak to right now. We're in, in November, which is Hospice and Palliative Care Month. So this is a, a theme on a lot of people's minds. Would you be able to speak to how you have responded to that push for assisted suicide in New York as a pastor and as a leader? [00:10:07] Speaker B: Sure, sure, sure. A very quick update. You're correct. The legislature passed in both houses the assisted suicide bill of court's putting a very pretty name on it to make it sound attractive. And so it passed. And then it goes to the governor's desk. The governor has 10 days after she receives it, but it doesn't say when she has to receive it. So it's still pending. She said publicly that she's grappling with it. And so we Use that as an occasion to say, okay, as long as you're still thinking about Adam, we're going to keep talking to you. And so that's, that's what we're doing. You know, there are, there are a number of concerns when you. From, from the legislative side. So first of all, morally speaking, wrong. You know, we don't have control over life and death. And this has been a temptation from the very beginning, goes back to Adam and Eve to try to grasp the power from God. So it morally, it would be wrong to take your own life or to assist in the taking of another person's life. That's very serious. Secondly, morally speaking, it goes against the very code of ethics in the medical field, those early principles that do no harm, the principles of the Hippocratic oath. It stands in direct contradiction to the oath. So morally, ethically, it's wrong. We have to focus too, though, on the political issues. And I don't mean politics as in partisan politics. I mean politics as the good of society. Who gets impacted by this? The poor and the vulnerable. [00:11:40] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:11:42] Speaker B: So when does it happen that what is proposed right now is an option? Oh, you know. [00:11:48] Speaker A: No, no, no. [00:11:48] Speaker B: You know, we just want to give you the choice so that if you want to do this, you can. But when does that change to. You have a responsibility to get people to do this because, you know, you're keeping your family on edge and, you know, causing stress is. It happens. And if you talk. I was very recently with a bishop from Canada who's a friend, you know, and we talked about physician assisted suicide in Canada where they've taken. Not only that then has it expanded in their mindset, but they've expanded the definition of it altogether. You can choose assisted suicide for any reason whatsoever. [00:12:28] Speaker C: It's. [00:12:29] Speaker B: You don't have to be dying. Yes. It's just, you know, it's, it's really the. That slippery slope is real. [00:12:37] Speaker A: So someone having a mental health crisis. [00:12:39] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:12:40] Speaker A: Could be tempted towards this choice or even maybe push towards this choice. [00:12:45] Speaker B: Well, even the handicap who be. Who start to get the message that they were burdened in society, on their families. [00:12:52] Speaker A: It's so wrong. My background is in disability law. That's actually how I got into pro life. I started off in the disability world because there can be these just lies, you know, in the world that people are not worth living, things that do that and people are. Their lives aren't worth living. And we know that's such a lie from the pit of hell. Right. Every life is worth living. [00:13:14] Speaker B: Every life is worth living. And then you know, again from a politic world concern, you say the codes of responsibility, but when is it not really a free choice? When do insurance companies or when does the government, when you're talking about Medicare, Medicaid, when do they start to cut the funds? Because there's another less expensive alternative for some of these more expensive treatments. [00:13:43] Speaker A: What a terrible way to look at people. [00:13:46] Speaker C: Yep. [00:13:47] Speaker B: But it's, it happens. We already see it. I, I, I talk to the little sisters of the poor, for example, or the communist. [00:13:55] Speaker A: Oh, they're wonderful. [00:13:56] Speaker B: But yeah, the reimbursements for long term care are going down and down and down. It's getting harder and harder for nursing homes to provide long term care for people because the reimbursements are shrinking and the regulations are becoming greater. So just more, something is more burdensome and so there's something that's being forced. They have to, you know, they do more of the rehab or stuff and all that and that's great work. I'm glad that they do that. But part of the reason they have to do that is to be able to subsidize the long term care. They can't do the long term care. It's a very, you start to see that those, that those cuts happening. When do you start to see, well, you know, it is a much cheaper alternative. [00:14:44] Speaker A: So especially as we have an aging population, people getting older, there can be this kind of false rationalization or you know, false economy about well, we have this many people working and this many people aging and how can we sustain this? And that's it, you know, these kind of very utilitarian questions. [00:15:02] Speaker B: And. Yeah. And then, you know, when does depression enter into this? And you know, actually it changes the mindset of healthcare because as it stands now, you know, doctors and nurses and health practitioners, they're very attentive to maybe a post surgical kind of depression, you know, but when the mentality changes that, well, you know, person wants to choose not to eat or not to take care of themselves, it's it, it's legal becomes the definition for it's okay, it's true. [00:15:38] Speaker A: When, when something becomes legal in the minds of, of people within the culture, they, it starts to seem moral, it starts to seem legitimate. [00:15:46] Speaker B: I've had young people say, yeah, I've had young people say, well you know, smoking marijuana is not a problem anymore because it's legal. [00:15:53] Speaker A: Right. As if that's the only thing that's wrong with it. [00:15:55] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. [00:15:58] Speaker A: Got it. [00:15:59] Speaker B: So you know, for teenagers, I've been Heard say this, you know, so that's what happens. It's legal. So, you know, it, it changes your mindset. We have, it's a struggle because it becomes a conscience issue. Because many Catholics, and not only Catholics, but practitioners who do have strong convictions when, you know, it's this, this starts to chip away at them and they, and they are under terrible pressure. And then finally families for families. We had a day with bioethic issues and we, this was planned two years ago, not realizing where we'd be in at the moment. And end of life issues was one of the conversations. The physician who spoke, he told two stories about families where the husband had a serious condition, was terminal and he wanted to make sure everything was in order. And in a sense he felt personally inside responsible. And his wife was trying to be supportive and she, he was telling her that, you know, this is really the best thing even for him. And I was, oh no. She spent, and she spent hours with this, these two different couples. She spent hours with them. And she said, you know, as we talked and made through started to come out that the husband was really doing this because he didn't want to burden. Use all the money. He didn't want to burden. [00:17:27] Speaker A: Right. [00:17:27] Speaker B: He was afraid. He was burning through money. He was afraid of he was leaving her. And she, when he admitted that then she was free to say because she felt that she was kind of bound to respect his wishes. [00:17:41] Speaker A: His wishes. [00:17:43] Speaker B: And that just like opened it up for us when she said, I don't want money, I want you. [00:17:48] Speaker A: Right. And there is what's, what's incredible is that, you know, the devil takes something good like man's desire to provide for his family, leave a legacy for his children, do right. And then when we don't have the truth, there can be this kind of toxic inversion of that, of them thinking that death is somehow the answer. You know, we see this often in, in abortion, right, where women are like, I can barely take care of the kids I already have. Maybe daddy doesn't want this baby. It's a burden. And, and thinking that they are a burden for being pregnant, that their fertility is a burden. [00:18:18] Speaker B: Yes. [00:18:19] Speaker A: And it's such a toxic lie from. [00:18:21] Speaker B: The other pressure that we end up putting on each other with that right. Sometimes out of ignorance. [00:18:26] Speaker A: We haven't spoken out of ignorance. [00:18:28] Speaker B: And so this time she said, you know, this was, these were good outcomes. But she said, who's going to have these hour long conversations with people over a period of time? And I'm looking around at the priest and saying, I think we are, but when we have the entree. And then the other thing for us now in New York is to deal with what are the pastoral issues? How are we, how do we handle this? How do we accompany people at these critical moments when they're making this decision that goes totally against everything we believe. It's a complicated world. And I, again, I had these conversations with the. My friend from Canada and it's. It's tough. [00:19:06] Speaker A: These issues can also be kind of difficult to understand sometimes for the average Catholic, even someone who is pro life and would think it is wrong to take a life, there can be so much kind of obfuscation of what is actually happening. [00:19:19] Speaker B: Sometimes they use these terms, medical aid and dying and, you know, death with dignity, compassion and death. And honestly, many of our own people, many people who would call themselves pro life because they can see the horror of abortion are kind of taken in. These arguments can be somewhat compelling, the compassionate side of things. And when you see somebody who's suffering. [00:19:46] Speaker A: At the end of death. Right. [00:19:47] Speaker B: You know, so, yeah, it's a very big pastoral problem. It gets. Again, we'll make the connection with the pro life movement at the beginning of life. Welcome with Moms in Need. So one thing we have to talk about this. We have to advocate against medically assisted suicide and raise the issues of end of life issues and talk about the blessings of those times. It's a very difficult time, but it's a very graceful time. It's very graceful time. But just like with pregnancy, we have to stand with and accompany people on. [00:20:23] Speaker A: That journey a hundred percent. [00:20:24] Speaker B: And that's where palliative care and hospice care comes in. I'm so proud of some of our nursing homes. And here in New York, I come again out of Rockville Center. They have Catholic Health Services and we have very strong hospice and palliative care over there. It's so important. And you know, palliative care is not necessarily restricted to dying. Palliative care is really about, put very simply, pain management. It's about bringing comfort and trying to adjust medications, focusing on the pain at hand. On the other side, hospice care is more end of life. And it has a number of things elements to it. So it has the palliative care and the comfort care. The hospice care people become a conduit and they help you guide through the system and all of that, but they help also to foster discussions, spiritual care that, you know, if the person is Catholic, they'll contact the local parish or if the person's not, they'll try to get them the pastor or get a chaplain from the system. We have to do more. And we do do more than say that this is wrong again. [00:21:44] Speaker A: Right. No, nothing for you. You have to suffer. No help. Right? [00:21:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:48] Speaker A: We're not saying that. We're saying that we have options to help end the pain and not your life. Right, right. [00:21:55] Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. And again, I'm so proud of such a. Of people who are in that ministry. I mentioned the Long island and Catholic Health Services, the different. The Little Sisters, the Carmelite Sisters. Calvary Hospital in the Bronx is known for this for years and years and years. And it. Walking with people during these journeys, again, it's a privileged moment as a priest is. You do see some of the things that happen during this time. Some of the reconciliations that take place. Some of say I love you. Some of the reversal of Rose. I'll never forget. Now, this goes way back. I was a seminarian at the time on pastoral year when the pastor of the parish whose mother, who was well into her 90s, was dying and he was giving her water, like just kind of putting straw in water, tapping the top of it and then letting the water drip in. And it just hit me. And of the reversal of rules, how she tended to him. [00:22:52] Speaker A: Yes. [00:22:52] Speaker B: And now he's tending to her. [00:22:55] Speaker A: To her. And that's biblical, right? That it's. [00:22:58] Speaker B: So I think, you know what I think of it every year at the Assumption, you know, she who held the baby Jesus in her arms. [00:23:05] Speaker A: Yes. [00:23:05] Speaker B: Was taken up into heaven and embraced by her, who she once held. You know, so the reverse that. That that happened, you know, I'm. I'm going to tell you something. It'll be two years in January that my mother died. [00:23:19] Speaker A: Oh, I'm so sorry. [00:23:21] Speaker B: And. And she had had a long illness. And my brothers and sisters and I are just struck by my father and he. The care and devotion that he gave to her. [00:23:34] Speaker A: Her. [00:23:35] Speaker B: She became totally dependent, almost childlike. And the funny thing is, you know, my father would never. Is. It was terrible. It was a horrible experience. But he wouldn't trade it for anything. And even when she died, if I. He'd say if I could. Even if things continue the way they were, if I could have your mother, I would. That would be fine. I'd do it again because, you know, just to have her with me, what. [00:23:58] Speaker A: A legacy of love. To wit. [00:23:59] Speaker B: It's tough. [00:24:01] Speaker C: It is. [00:24:01] Speaker B: And you know what he said? And he says it to this day. He said, you know, all that he had to do says over and over and over again. I don't know how your mother did it. I don't know how she raised five children and took care of me and got us out and did the cooking and did the laundry and then started. [00:24:22] Speaker A: There's a level of appreciation that comes out. [00:24:24] Speaker B: He said I. He sent a. You know, cooking for two people. Just overwhelmed me. That and your mother did it every day for a whole family with all different tastes and. And getting people out and all of that. Yeah. That was what he took away from that experience, you see. But walking with the people, you get to see some of those moments. Unfortunately. I know it's not always that way. We live in a broken world and we live with broken families and people are hurting, and maybe that's where, if we can as church step in and that's where we can try to accompany those who are struggling. I mean, you think of Mother Teresa people. You know, people literally holding people on the street as they were dying, so then at least they would go knowing they were loved. [00:25:12] Speaker A: They were loved. And it's that in the end, what we. That's what we all long for. Right? That's a great promise of God and of heaven, of just this infinite love that will happen. The one who made us right, who. Who knows how to appreciate us better than anyone else. I'm so struck by that image of your father with your mother in. In her illness, having this level of appreciation by being a caregiver for the first time and seeing what she experienced raising her children, appreciating that in her and your mother getting to be cared for, you know, even if. Even though she might not have been fully, you know, able to. To appreciate, you know, to experience. [00:25:46] Speaker B: Exactly. Her appreciation was trust. She gave us up in trust. And. Yeah, that was her way of saying thank you. [00:25:54] Speaker C: That she. [00:25:55] Speaker A: Yes. [00:25:55] Speaker B: That she trusted, surrendered in trust. [00:25:58] Speaker A: That is so. What a. What a gorgeous image that is. It's a. It's incredible. You know, God's design for human life and the meaning at the end of it all, Even when we see suffering, we see pain, we see things that seem meaningless. You know, what causes the most suffering, you know, usually is lack of love or feeling alone. And yet these. These moments where we're able to accompany loved ones at the end of life, help them know they're not alone. Help there be this. This. This gravity to the time we have together where we can truly be present and to give all. Give of ourselves and to. And have that time to receive. It's as you said, that you were Talking about it being grace, grace filled and, you know, with, with Jesus. It truly, it truly can be. I'd like to hear what you have to say as a pastor because you said you've walked with people who are, who have experienced this, and now you're helping priests in this moment in New York, trying to learn how to walk with families. What do you think that many, any listeners out there who are caregivers or, or who may themselves be suffering with illness and pain. What would you like to say, say to them as a pastor? [00:27:09] Speaker B: I would say to them, I know it's easier said than done, but don't do it alone. You know, first of all, you have our prayers and our admiration for you who are caregivers, but rely. You're going to need help. You know, we often hear a caregiver getting sick, right. And sometimes you hear about respite care and if you can take advantage of some of the things that are available, whether it be through insurance, with home health aides and things like that, or whether a parish or community can band together to try to give support and help to the caregiver, I would encourage that. Let's do what we can to try to help those who are helping their loved ones. You know, children, you could call on the easy adult children to step up in responsibility and again, use the agencies that we have. It will be, it can be a time of grace. But I, let's be honest, it's also incredibly exhausting and draining. And, you know, you can, you need to pay attention to your own health because in a sense, like I would say this with my father, and one of the conversations we would have is, you know, my father, if I, if he couldn't make a doctor appointment or couldn't do something that he just didn't do, you know, do it, we would have to say, dad, you know, mom needs you to be healthy. [00:28:36] Speaker A: Yes, it's so true. And that's one of the ways the devil tries to get us sometimes to exhaust us, deplete us, steal our opportunities for rest and restoration so that we can experience. So that we can't fully experience God's love. So we can't fully, you know, who we're, who we're called to be, and receive that love and care as we're meant to. [00:28:56] Speaker B: And sometimes to other people on the outside, I would encourage to, to be, try to be specific, you know, like sometimes, again, I know caregivers. This isn't just my dad. This is a lot of people, you know, if you say, please call Me if I can help. And he'll say yes, they won't do it. No. [00:29:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:13] Speaker B: And not because they won't, but, but you know, the occasion. [00:29:16] Speaker A: What does that mean? [00:29:17] Speaker B: He would write, yeah, you know, but can I do the shopping or can I sit with somebody so that you can get out? You know, to a certain extent, going to do the shopping was for my dad a chance to get out and move a little bit. [00:29:35] Speaker A: True. [00:29:35] Speaker B: To hold the shopping cart, have the support of that and interact with other adults, see other people. [00:29:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:41] Speaker B: Can I help you with this or that? Can I lift this burden off your shoulder? Can I help you get, take care of this errand? Or bad. [00:29:49] Speaker A: That could be a whole nother episode. We do just how to support caregivers and how Christians be the handsome feet of Christ to those who are caregiving and, and to support them. That's a, that's so key. And we say the same thing again. Walking with moms in need. It's this, it's similar concept. Don't say, well, I'll support you no matter what you decide. Say, I will take you to that doctor's appointment. I'm dropping off groceries, I'm going to cook a meal and bring it over. Actually giving those specific offers or just specific actions is so much more helpful than a vague, you know, suggestion of potentially helping at a future date. Right. [00:30:22] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:30:23] Speaker A: It's so true. So your excellency, right now we are in the jubilee of hope, which is such a wonderful time to focus on this specific theme of hope. And hope really is that antidote to despair. Right. It's the absence of, of this. There is the opportunity to look forward to something good, look forward to something positive. What words of hope do you have to share or offer with those who might be listening to this podcast, who might themselves be suffering from a chronic illness or mental health concern and sometimes be tempted to despair? [00:30:57] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I'm going to have to start with the scriptures. And the only hope that doesn't disappoint is Jesus himself. So look to Jesus, look to the Lord. That's so important because he does want to be part of our lives and he wants to be part of the nitty gritty of our lives. If you, you look at the way he got into people's lives, you know, he called Peter by the seashore, but he did it by stepping into his boat. And then once he called Peter to follow him, what did he do? He ends up in Peter's house where he heals his mother in law. Jesus isn't going to be, you know, a bystander watching you and waving, saying, good Job. Jesus wants to get in that nitty gritty of our lives along with us and walk with us. So he is that hope. And if we can proclaim him to one another, that's a step and prayer, prayer, talk to the Lord. You know, the other thing about Jesus, his friends, or honest with him. You know, we often when we read it, we make it sound very polite. But you look at Martha, Mary and Lazarus and you, you looked at that episode in the Gospel of John when, when Lazarus died. Martha was not polite. She was not happy. Jesus, we called you, you let us down. You didn't show. So be honest with the Lord. Tell, yeah, he can handle it. And, you know, but, oh, but then listen. Then you listen. Job shook his fist at God, but then God spoke true. [00:32:38] Speaker A: I mean, that's the Psalms, right? The Psalms teaching us how to pray. It often starts with, like, God, I'm in this terrible circumstance. This is. I'm in so much pain. I'm in so much, you know, so much distress. [00:32:48] Speaker B: And yet, you know, let the Lord speak back. So that's one thing. And that relationship with Jesus, he is the only hope. I mean, again, we have to have a dose of realism in all the things we're talking about, all the suggestions. But we are human people with faults and shortcomings, and we do let each other down. And maybe sometimes we have to forgive things here. But, you know, if you are suffering, know that you're loved. You're loved first by God, and rest in that comfort of Jesus Christ. Find uplifting messages. Try to seek out people who have positive things to say. Try to encourage other people. Sometimes, you know, these source of happiness for others. I had a kid once, tell me before confirmation, he chose the name Vincent. Vincent. And it was Vincent de Paul he was thinking of. I said, well, why did you choose that name? And he says, because I find I'm happiest when I'm helping people. [00:33:51] Speaker A: Oh, he gets it. He's got it. [00:33:54] Speaker B: Isn't that something? [00:33:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:55] Speaker B: Yep. 13 years old. I'm happiest when I'm helping people. Try to as best you can. And I know maybe it's easy for me to say. I'm sitting in a seminary room. I'm thinking, just a seminary. We're going to be ordaining deacons tomorrow, the transitional deacons. It's going to be a great day. But now, here I am, sitting in a comfortable chair, feeling fine, and looking forward to a good Day. I know it may be easy for me to say this, but really search your heart and see. Is there somebody that you can help, either by praying for them or calling them or encouraging them. Sometimes when we're living outside of ourselves, we touch that light of hope, you know? [00:34:41] Speaker A: Well said. So the light of hope, I believe, is very connected to the gospel of life, right? Because absolutely. The gospel of life is that life is worth living, that where there's life, there's hope. Right. And that we are ultimately awaited by the love of Jesus. And so that gives us all of the, you know, the hope for eternity. Right. Can you speak to what the gospel of life means to you personally? [00:35:09] Speaker B: It's a message of hope and joy. It's. It's something exciting. I remember when St. John Paul issued that encyclical and he contrasted the culture of death with the gospel of life. And he just gave a vocabulary to this whole shift. And even in the way he talked about moral theology, basically, it's less about, you know, what do we have to do or what are we allowed to do, and more about being that light, that light of Jesus Christ. It's celebrating life as life really is, not as we want to pretend in good or bad. And it's just sensing that it's taking stock my myself, the good, the bad, the ugly, and being grateful for it all because created in God's own image and likeness, it's. To me, the gospel of life is the word Gospel is good news. It's incredibly good news. It's good news. It's an occasion of gratitude. But it's also something that fuels us, like, just gets us to. To live fully. You know, Jesus said, I came that you may have life and have it abundant. [00:36:30] Speaker A: So true. Well, thank you so much for that reflection. You've been a wonderful guest. I'd like to maybe continue our conversation about, about caregivers and how we can support them. And there's, you know, so much more could go into on what we certainly have today, but I'd love to. To arrange that. But for now, would you close us in prayer? [00:36:49] Speaker B: Sure, sure. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Lord God, we thank you for the gift of life, for the gift of eternal life. And we give you thanks, Lord, for those who love us and support us. Help us to hear your voice, encouraging us when we're down, challenging us when we seek, grasp, control, comfort us when we're feeling alone. Let us hear your voice and then let us whisper that message. Of yours to those around us by what we say and do. And may the Lord bless you and keep you. May his face shine upon you, be gracious to you. May he look upon you with kindness and grant you his peace. And may almighty God bless you and your loved ones in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. [00:37:48] Speaker A: Amen. Thank you so much your excellency. [00:37:50] Speaker B: Thank you. God bless once again. [00:37:53] Speaker C: Though the version we released today has been edited for time. The full podcast released by the USCCB can be found on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and on Heart Radio. A full video of the podcast will also appear on net TV and can be found on YouTube. Thanks for joining us this week. I look forward to being with you next week. Perhaps a little bit early as we celebrate Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving one and all and have a wonderful week. God bless you. [00:38:23] Speaker B: Today at no. Sa.