Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: Welcome to this week's episode of Big City Catholics. I'm your host, Bishop Robert Brennan, Bishop of Brooklyn, serving in Brooklyn and Queens. Friends, we're on the threshold of Holy Week, the holiest week of the year. Of course, this Sunday is Palm Sunday. You might say that it's a universal retreat where we as Catholics and many other Christians around the world interrupt our regular routines to contemplate the depth of God's love for us throughout the mysteries of the passion, death and resurrection of Jesus.
We begin, as always, in prayer. And by now you know that I often turn to the prayer of St Francis before the crucifix during these days of Lent.
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.
Most high and glorious God, enlighten the darkness of my heart.
Give me right faith, certain hope, perfect love and deep humility.
O Lord, give me sense and discernment in order to carry out your true and holy will.
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. So one of the great blessings of serving here in Brooklyn and Queens is the powerful way that Holy Week is observed in our parishes and neighborhoods. Of course, the liturgical experiences of Holy Week stand out above all, but there were also processions and expressions of faith all around during these most sacred days. When I served in Rockville Center, I was always intrigued by the Way of the Cross on Good Friday that began at St. James and then crossed over the Brooklyn Bridge into Manhattan. And I had always hoped to experience it once, well, God went above and beyond. Because now that I'm serving here in Brooklyn, I get not only to experience it, but I have the honor and privilege each year to welcome Communion and Liberation to our cathedral for the Way of the Cross and to walk with all of you on that journey. So today I welcome to big city Catholics three key representatives from Communion and and Liberation to talk about this upcoming Way of the Cross. Christopher Vath is the Communion and Liberation Choir director.
John Ronan, the local event coordinator for the Way of the Cross, and Luca Lupi, the regional representative of Communion and Liberation. Chris, John and Luca, you're very, very welcome here to Big City Catholics.
Thank you.
[00:02:42] Speaker A: Thank you, Bishop.
[00:02:43] Speaker C: Thank you, Excellency.
[00:02:45] Speaker B: So we'll discuss the Way of the Cross, which takes place on Good Friday, April 3, 2026, beginning at 10am at the Basilica Cathedral of St. James. But let's begin by introducing each of you.
[00:02:57] Speaker D: So, Chris, I'm the oldest one here who's got the longest history with the Way of the Cross. And so I've been doing the music. Music in the choir is very important, the choral music and. And also getting the people who are with us to sing along. So that's my task. I've done some of the organization also for many, many years.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: Beautiful. Great. And John, I'm just sort of a
[00:03:20] Speaker C: civilian with Communion Liberation, though I've been a member for some 30 years. I help out with some of the background of the Way the Cross and other events, which I think we'll talk about.
[00:03:31] Speaker B: Great. Excellent. Excellent. And Luca and Luca.
[00:03:34] Speaker A: I came from Italy to New York 12 years ago after getting married. And I had encountered the movement in Italy, in Milan, where the movement was funded. We'll say a little bit later about it. And my family is from the movement as well. And when I moved here, encountered the community here in New York.
Been living here in New York since 12 years, have three kids. And eight years ago, I took over the responsibility of sort of leading the community, of Community Liberation in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut from Chris Bath, actually, who was my predecessor in leading the community. And I have been here since then.
[00:04:09] Speaker B: Wonderful. Actually, why don't we go right into it then? Luca, please tell us a little bit about Communion and Liberation.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: Yeah. So Communion and Liberation is a lay Catholic movement that was founded in Italy, in Milan, by Monsignor Luigi Giussani, who is now a servant of God. The founding idea of Communion Liberation is a life of faith that enters into the daily experiences of life. Giussani saw in Italy in the 50s how everyone was Catholic, but no one really, or few people really lived the Catholic faith as something that had something to do with the daily experiences with work, with life, with study. And when he entered, after becoming a priest, he started teaching in a high school in Italy, in the Berche High School, which is a very renowned school in Italy. And as you may know, in Italy, we do religion education in high school, even public school, have religious education, especially at the time. And so the classes were full of kids, Catholic, probably by tradition. And he started challenging his students and challenging the idea of faith, not starting from the idea that everyone had to be Catholic, but challenging them and saying, why does it make sense to be Catholic? What is different about our Catholic faith? And he accepted all the challenges. He accepted the provocation of going and looking into also the people that were opposing the Catholic faith. And he also, especially when he moved into university, he started community in the university, especially the Catholic University of Milan.
And at that time he encountered was open to dialogue with all it was open to dialogue with the communist representatives. And a lot of actually people that were originally opposing the Catholic faith converted in the experience of this young priest, who was first and foremost starting from the reasonableness of faith and not starting as a faith, as an add on to your normal life. And ever since the movement grew throughout the world, he has been recognized by the church. We are recognized as a lay movement, as the fraternity of communion and liberation. Father Giussani passed away, and now we have a president who's a layperson. Davide Prosperi is the president of the fraternity. And we're continuing in evolving the movement, in responding to the reality that we have in front of us. And the main challenges are how does the encounter with Christ change us and make us work and live life and live our families in a better way, in a way that is more true, that is more faithful, that is more towards our accomplishment of our desires, towards our desire for happiness. And for this reason, I think one of the key feature that for me, that attracted me at the movement, as I said, my family has been on the movement for a while. My family met Father Giussani in university, my dad and my mom. But for me, it became a real experience in high school when I met a priest of community liberation who fascinated me in the way in which was living life and the way in which every aspect, from soccer to study to everything, was driven by the encounter with Christ. And we came here in New York and we found that the people like Chris, like John, that had met the movement, from Italian immigrants that came here, were living the same type of faith. And for us now, community liberation, for me and my family, for all of us, it's a family here in New York. It's a way of helping each other. So we meet weekly, we study texts both from Father Giussani and from popes and from the church. And we ultimately, we are a friendship that helps living faith on a daily basis.
[00:07:37] Speaker B: Wow, that's amazing. I'm always caught. Am I correct to say I see the expression the human adventure?
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Yeah. So here, one of the main factor of Padi Giussani idea is that life is an adventure. Life is.
It's something that you live in. And the human factor, it's what we start from the human factor. And all our desires, all our needs, everything that we are and we have, it's the tool that is given to us to recognize Christ as the answer to our desire. And therefore, for us, the human factor is.
[00:08:10] Speaker C: It's.
[00:08:11] Speaker A: It's critical. We don't Wanna. We don't wanna take anything out. We don't wanna eliminate anything. We wanna face all our limits. And in this period of Lent, as you said before, like, you know, it's a very special moment to look at that.
[00:08:23] Speaker B: Beautiful. You know, one of the things that I recall is hearing over the years about the New York encounter. Both when I was in Rockville center, when I was in Columbus, Ohio, I used to hear people who would talk about the. The New York encounter. I had the chance to join you for Mass this year, but it really is a full weekend of serious conversation. John, you want to tell us a little bit about the New York encounter?
[00:08:45] Speaker C: Sure. The New York encounter is. Gosh, how many have we done now, guys?
[00:08:50] Speaker D: I would say close to 20.
[00:08:52] Speaker C: Yeah, it's an annual event. It's a cultural event, and it's all about education, dialogue and friendship. And we have discussions, we have exhibits. It's in the heart of New York City, by the way. That's where, first and foremost, it's right in Manhattan, a beautiful convention center. We have discussions, many exhibits, and some interesting performance and the amazing speakers as well. And it starts on a Friday, and it goes through all the way through Sunday.
I myself have been involved. I'm sort of the nuts and bolts guy this year. I built a display case for some relics from some Algerian martyrs. Goes from there to, like, amazing musical events as well. Oh, and it's free.
[00:09:39] Speaker B: It's free and it's free. Oh, good. That's big. That's a big piece. Yeah. So again, it ties that human adventure, it ties human life, and it's global. Right. You look at situations happening all around the world, but tying that into the encounter with Christ along the way.
[00:09:54] Speaker C: Absolutely, absolutely.
Yeah. Often there are speakers who come from other parts of the world to discuss, you know, what's going on there. And, you know, right from there all the way down to special little programs for children.
You know, people bring their children, and there's a place for the children to meet Christ, if you will.
[00:10:15] Speaker B: That's great.
[00:10:16] Speaker A: Beautiful. Beautiful.
[00:10:17] Speaker B: And of course, what brings us together this week, as we're on the threshold of Holy Week, is the Way of the Cross. And we're all familiar with the Way of the Cross, San Alphonsus, and doing the stations in the church. You take up stations, but it's a little bit different from what we're used to. But, Chris, you want to give us a little bit of background on the Way of the Cross and what we can expect.
[00:10:37] Speaker D: Sure. By the way, this is the 30th anniversary.
[00:10:41] Speaker B: Oh, isn't that great?
[00:10:42] Speaker D: Over the Brooklyn Bridge.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: 30 years.
[00:10:44] Speaker D: 30 years, yep. We started with a woman who was looking at the bridge and saying, oh, the very structures of the bridge looks like a cathedral. You know, the arches have those. They look like stained glass window shapes. And so she told that to Father Giussani, our founder. And he said, well, then you have to help bring Christ to New York City. You need to move to bring Christ to New York City. And sort of came from there. Somebody said, oh, let's do away the cross over the bridge. And so we can connect Brooklyn and Manhattan. We can bring Christ into the city of New York in a very explicit way.
So we started again. Bishop Daly was the Bishop of Brooklyn at that time.
Bishop Cattanella was with us for many years.
And as you know, Cardinal Dolan has joined us often. And we started there. Father Giussani in Italy had done a very particular type of way of the cross, including French poets, specific readings, things from plays, anything to provoke the passion of Jesus in people. You know, what had happened. So we try to keep a lot of that. And we found that, you know, it started with just us. We were 30 people those first years. And we've grown into. Probably the largest crowd we had was after 9 11.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:12:07] Speaker D: We had 2,000 people that year. And we went into the city. Mayor Bloomberg came out and greeted us. So that was very instrumental. But what's very encouraging for us is to see that it's really become an event of the city. And it's not just our insular little activity, but it's something for the city. So even with that in mind, we do things like we have Spanish songs now because there are many Hispanic people there. Beautifully. Last year the Greek Orthodox Church invited us to join with them for Good Friday. So we ended up in their church in the World Trade Center.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, actually, so last year we had the happy coincidence. Not really coincidence by luck, but just that the Orthodox celebration of Easter was timed the same as our own celebration of Easter. And with that common date of Easter, we had the common experience of Good Friday. And so we ended up at St. Nicholas Church. St. Nicholas Church was destroyed in the attacks of 9 11, and it took a long time to rebuild. It's not very big, but to me it's very powerful. You go into the church there, the traditional Greek icons. But there were also reminders of the effects of September 11th. But I think there were two factors. One is this work that we are engaged in towards unity with the Greek Orthodox Church.
So last year, Archbishop Elpidoferos joined us and invited us into the church. And we stood together, we walked together.
The most sacred thing, you know, the commemoration of the passion, death and resurrection of Jesus that I think was. I think was first within the 30 year history. Is it?
[00:14:01] Speaker A: Yeah, it was. And I was. I was particularly striking. I want to just one small detail that to me was fascinating because we. We worked a lot to try to make this happen. In the past, we tried to finish in 9, 11. It was always the ground zero area or the World Trade center area, and it was always impossible. So when this opportunity came last year of joining the Greek Orthodox Church and ending in this beautiful church, but also very significant for what we're doing, we were very excited about the idea. And I remember when we were finishing the last station and John had created a little stand to leave the cross in front of St Nicholas, to leave the cross that we carried from St James, physically crossing a bridge from the Catholic to the Orthodox Church as well. As you were saying, a beautiful sign of unity.
And we drop off the cross in front of St. Nicholas. And I was struck by the amount of care that the St. Nicholas church had put in making the cross of Christ beautiful. They had put flowers around the stand and they left it there throughout their own rite of Good Friday and out towards Easter. But that little detail of all the flowers around our bare cross of Jesus, it was striking to me to see how the different. We come from different tradition. We have different tastes, we have different educations, but we can all come together. Looking at the cross of Christ and to me, that was beautiful.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: That is one year when we were on different dates, I was invited to the Greek Orthodox Church in Brooklyn. It's a very serious day and rightly so, very stark. But also in the Orthodox Church there's a recognition of the beauty of the gift of Christ. And so it was nice. That's an interesting thing. I did not know that they had left the cross and decorated it. That is very profound. Very, very profound. You know, speaking of profound, Chris, the music too. It's a beautiful chant. I'm so impressed by what the choir does. And it captures the heart and soul right away, as soon as you hear it, like a haunting melody almost.
[00:16:00] Speaker D: Thank you. There's nothing like music too to do that. Music does its work if it's beautiful. And we were lucky that we have such a hugely rich tradition in the Catholic Church now.
[00:16:11] Speaker B: We don't do this for publicity, but I always am amazed by the attention that this event draws. It's amazing to see the reaction of people. We're out there in the midst of a busy, you might call almost holiday kind of experience. There are lots of tourists in New York, a lot of New Yorkers. It's probably. It's the earlier days of spring where people are just starting to get out and about. It's a day off for a lot of people. And so they're doing all their normal things.
And yet this long procession of people behind a cross comes across, kind of interrupts everything.
And people are so attracted.
People stop. I see people making the signs of the cross. I see people down. You know, where you might. I'm sure there are a few people get a little annoyed. But where you might like to see people get annoyed, there's something that stops people in their tracks because of this event.
[00:17:16] Speaker D: I'm saying it was really beautiful to me to see, especially in the early years, that there are construction workers on the bridge always.
[00:17:25] Speaker A: And.
[00:17:26] Speaker D: And as the cross passes, how many of them have taken off their hats, you know, the hard hats. As the cross passes, I just thought, oh, my goodness, that's really beautiful. There are so many tourists, as you said, Bishop, and there are all sorts of people, the people that know what's going on and people that are clueless. But you think, okay, this is what Jesus faced. You know.
[00:17:48] Speaker B: You know, once I was in Jerusalem and we were making the Way of the Cross, and the day before, there was a scripture scholar who spoke to us, and he said, you know, when you met the Way of the Cross in Jerusalem, you're going to be a little disappointed. It's not the pious walk that you think it is. You know, people are out there doing all their business. They're sweeping their shops. And then you have the people who are trying to hawk different articles and bring you into their shops and all of that. He says, but you know what? That's more like. It was on the day of Good Friday. We have this imagination of everybody just stopping on Good Friday and it being a very pious walk. And quite honestly, a lot of people just kept on with their business. And in the midst of, again, the human life, the human adventure, Jesus is walking through the streets of Jerusalem, carrying across the most profound event ever to take place in human history is happening, and lots of people are just going about their business. That's just the way of life. And so for us to have that experience on the Brooklyn Bridge is a little bit closer to the experience of the Lord. It brings us a little closer to that. Luca, you were going to say something.
[00:18:58] Speaker A: Yeah, No, I was saying exactly. This idea of bringing the cross in the busy streets of New York and not being worried about everything being perfect and sometimes also changing. We started with five, six stations. We went down to four stations, only one in St James, one on Brooklyn Bridge, one in City hall, and the Last one at St. Nicholas, because that's what people can join. Because at lunch break, that's about the time when we come down from Brooklyn Bridge, people, we can join for half an hour, 20 minutes. And as you said, it's beautiful to see how it's also a moment of memory. I remember seeing some tourists and saying, oh, why is that? Oh, yeah, it's Good Friday. You know, that's something that maybe comes from the old tradition, and all of a sudden it clicks and maybe moves people to join us. You know, as you said, the way of the cross that we do is open to all, is free. We all support it by donation. And the old idea is Christ has something to tell us in the place where we live, in the financial district of New York as well as the Brooklyn Bridge for tourists.
[00:19:59] Speaker B: John?
[00:20:00] Speaker C: Yeah. One aspect of sort of the everydayness of the experiences, you know, you'd be walking along and you. You hear hovering helicopters in the distance.
[00:20:11] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:20:12] Speaker C: And then you realize they're kind of following us, the newscast.
And I have to tell you, one experience I will never forget. In the early days, my job was to be in advance of the procession. So I was up over the bridge, maybe in the middle of the bridge, starting to head toward Manhattan, and I was next to Julio, a friend of ours.
And Julio, this woman approaches from the Manhattan side, and she says. And Julio starts speaking to her in Spanish. And I couldn't quite follow. It was very fast. And I saw a look of surprise on his face, and he turned to me, he said, this woman is here because she was sitting at home in Manhattan, and she got a phone call from her sister in Costa Rica, who said, there's a procession coming your way.
You should join from Costa Rica.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: Wow.
Isn't that something.
[00:21:05] Speaker C: I'll never forget that.
[00:21:06] Speaker B: That was the other thing I was going to comment on, is it does garner. We don't do it for publicity in the sense of press coverage, but we do want to stand in witness. And it really does attract a lot of press coverage, doesn't it?
[00:21:19] Speaker D: Absolutely. And to show that God uses everything.
We're in a city and going over a bridge that is iconic, visually, you know, it's just beautiful visually. So all of the cameras want to Be there. All the photographers want to be there.
[00:21:33] Speaker B: I think that this is a great encounter for Good Friday. And then I generally go back to St. James from there, and people go off to their churches, and many of them. Many of them go back to, like you say, this is something they can do during the lunch hour, but many of them come back to different parishes and churches to then pray the liturgy of the Lord's Passion.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: Yeah, that's something that we intentionally decided to do this way of the cross in a little bit of a typical time. You know, 10am in the morning is not where you typically do it. But the idea is exactly what you're saying, that we don't want to be disruptive to the life of the parishes and the communities. We want to offer something that can be available to everyone and can be done and lived and experienced, as well as the typical commitment that a lot of us as well go back. Chris goes back, and because Chris places in church in Staten island, so finishing the way the cross is Ron sustained island. So it's not something that it's an alternative to the daily rituals or the typical rituals of your parish. It's. It's something more. That's. That's how we see it.
[00:22:38] Speaker B: You know, because you're so busy, so involved in this, you have a real focus on that. But do you find yourselves able to enter into some of the other mysteries of Holy Week, into whether it be the Last Supper or looking forward to Easter Sunday?
[00:22:55] Speaker D: I'm a church musician, so my experience is very atypical, but it's a beautiful time to be a musician because, like I said before, the wealth of musical richness that we have in the Catholic Church is beautiful. So, yes, it's a beautiful week for me.
[00:23:12] Speaker B: So as busy as you are getting ready for this, you get right back to work, you do the Passion, and then you shift gears right into the joy of Easter, huh?
[00:23:21] Speaker D: Exactly.
Exactly.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: And I will save it for us lay people. I have a family of three kids and my wife. And Lent for us is important. So we. Every night with the kids, we read this book that was gifted to us by a friend with the life of the saints. Every day is a different life of a saint, and we read that with the kids. But then when we enter Holy Week, and especially on. On Good Friday, on Holy Thursday, we usually go. We take them to Mass at night to start the triduum, the Paschal Tridum, and Good Friday, obviously, and then also Saturday, preparing for the Easter Sunday. So I think it's important and It's. It's one huge moment, the Way of the Cross, but it's part of a triduum. And without, as you said, without Holy Thursday, the Good Friday, and without Easter Sunday, it would be an event for its own sake, for us, and it wouldn't be the meaningful experience we have.
[00:24:10] Speaker B: Excellent. Excellent. And, John, you're looking forward to Holy Week?
[00:24:14] Speaker C: Yes. For us, it's kind of.
It's a little bit different. My wife and my daughter are cantors and singers and choir, you know, choristers and stuff. So they're, like going here, there and everywhere. But this is one of our big events. This the way the Cross, I have to say.
[00:24:29] Speaker B: Good. Well, I first want to thank you for joining us today on Big City Catholics and for sharing some insights, but first of all, giving us a little bit of background. People, not a lot of people don't know about communion and liberation, so. So I really appreciate you sharing the background there for us. And I know that it's a pretty popular event. We're looking forward to a big crowd. I hope the weather holds up for us.
You know, some of the young adults.
There's a lot of talk these days about young adults making their way back into the church and seeking to know the truth of Christ. And this, I think, is one of those events that piques the interest of young adults.
And so I look forward to all of that. Even perhaps I'm going to reach out to my own family and see now some of the young adults are a little more independent. So I'm hoping maybe they'll be able to join us. And I know. Shalom. The young adult community at the San Damiano center in Brooklyn, they usually make a good showing, and this is a very important experience for them. So I look forward to all of that. But thank you for doing these 30 years. Wow. 30th anniversary. Thank you for bringing the Way of the Cross in a powerful expression to Brooklyn and Queens and Manhattan, you know, crossing over the bridge. This is a great gift for New York City. Very important gift for New York City.
[00:25:51] Speaker A: Thank you, Bishop. And thank you for having us today, but especially thank you for joining us at the Way of the Cross on behalf of community liberation. It's always an honor to. To see that we can work and have, you know, the bishop of our diocese being with us. For us, it's a great sign of not only that we're on the right way, but of unity of the church. That's that to us.
[00:26:12] Speaker B: It's an honor.
[00:26:13] Speaker A: Thank you very much.
[00:26:14] Speaker B: It's an honor for me.
It's an honor for me. As you know, I've always been interested, but boy, I'm so honored that I get to serve as the Bishop of Brooklyn to be with all of you. So thank you, Chris, John and Luca, for joining us today on Big City Catholics.
Now, to all of you who are listening, first, I invite you to the Way of the Cross on Good Friday, April 3, beginning at 10am at the Cathedral Basilica of St. James in Brooklyn. Allow me then to make a serious invitation, one and all. Please make this week different from all the others.
Try to set aside some of the routine. Let the Lord speak to you.
Please check in with your parish for the schedule of the liturgies of Holy Week.
And please set aside time for personal prayer. I look forward to the Chrism Mass on Tuesday.
That is a special moment for us priests as we renew the promises of our ordination. And at that Mass, I'll bless the oils that we will all use for our sacramental life in the coming year here in Brooklyn and Queens. That Mass will be broadcast on NET TV on Tuesday, March 31 at 4pm Please pray with us on Tuesday.
And friends, let's be united in prayer in our parishes throughout the days of the sacred Triduum. God bless you this Holy Week and always.
We conclude, of course, by asking God's blessing upon all of you. The Lord be with you.
[00:27:45] Speaker C: With your spirit.
[00:27:47] Speaker B: Lord, we ask you to guide us during these most holy days.
May we walk with you, Lord Jesus, on the way to Calvary, recalling how you walk with us always on the journey of life.
And may that destination lead us to the glory of Easter, where we sing your praises and enjoy your love forever and ever. And may Almighty God bless you, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
[00:28:20] Speaker A: Amen.
[00:28:21] Speaker B: Thank you once again for joining us on Big City Catholics. Next week we'll have a special edition with the homily from the Chrism Mass and the following week with the homily from Easter Sunday. God bless you in these glorious days.
