Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:09 Welcome back to a new year of Big City Catholics 2023 <unk> Podcast with Bishop Robert Brennan, the Bishop of the Diocese of Brooklyn, and myself, father Christopher, hen you today, the beginning of this new year, Bishop Brennan is calling in from St. Louis. Bishop, thank you for calling in and tell us a little bit about what you're doing down there.
Speaker 2 00:00:29 Uh, I'm in the city of St. Louis with Father Jose Diaz, one of our pastors, and we're attending what's called Aeq Conference, s e e k. And this is by focus, uh, ministries Focus is the fellowship of Catholic University students. They're present in many campuses around the country. Basically, it's a movement of young adult missionaries who work on college campuses, not really doing campus ministry, but inviting, like, sort of like apostles just going out, inviting people into friendship with Jesus Christ, and then to take part in the Sacramento life of the church. And they do wonderful work. They're present in Stony Brook University, SUNY Stony Brook. They came into Ohio State when I was there, and there are 17,000 young people. Wow. 17,000 young people gathered together in prayer. It's a great experience. I look forward to talking with Father Jose next week, and we can recap that experience.
Speaker 1 00:01:26 Yes, yes. We'll have a, a dedicated episode for your time there at the Sea Conference, but it must be absolutely rejuvenating. I, I'd imagine to be there with all
Speaker 2 00:01:36 Those. It really is. It really is.
Speaker 1 00:01:38 Wow. Incredible. Well, the church, it's great to see the life and and excitement of the church in the United States when they gather together in these great movements. This beginning of this year, it's to start off 2023. It's, it's nice for you, I'm sure to be there on a brighter, happier note. But the universal church, the church throughout the world, at the very beginning of this year now, we mourn the death, the passing of Pope Benedict the 16th who passed away just the day before January 1st, December 31st, 2022. So we wanted to spend some time, Bishop and I wanted to spend some time to talk a little bit about the life, the example, the ministry, and the impact really that Pope Benedict the 16th had in our lives. Perhaps as we begin this official section of the podcast, we can begin in prayer, will commend his soul through the intercession of our blessed mother to intercede on his behalf, bringing him to her son, our Lord Jesus Christ, as we pray, father, son, and Holy Spirit. Uh, amen. Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of the IOM Jesus,
Speaker 2 00:02:44 Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Speaker 1 00:02:49 The name of the Father, son, and Holy Spirit. Amen. That was quite shocking news, wasn't it Bishop, when you heard the passing of Pope Prophetic the 16th, but the Vatican had had kind of given us some warning.
Speaker 2 00:03:00 That's right. Well, they'd given us some warning and, and, and asked us to offer prayers. To me, the whole thing was a very human experience. I mean, this is something we all face. Um, certainly one day we'll all be facing our death and resurrection, but in the meantime, we face it as families. Right. And what Pope Francis did is he called the whole church together as a family to say, okay, we've reached a point where Poper Benedict is suffering and in need of our prayers. And the church paused to pray. In fact, you know, we had a lot of media inquiry, which just tell me that there was an interest. The world was interested in this, this was when he was in his final days. Mm-hmm. And so the, the world stopped to pray, and we gathered as a family to pray him over from this life into the next.
Speaker 2 00:03:47 And then yeah, on on Saturday morning, we received the news of his death. And I don't know, I feel a sense of, yeah, there's always mourn when somebody dies. But there's so, in my mind, my greatest feeling emotion on Saturday was one, one of gratitude. Mm-hmm. Just tremendous gratitude for Pope Benedict for his life. I mean, he spent good part of the 20th century and really his service to the church and his time as Pope for those eight years and even since, and he's been serving the church in these last 10 years in prayer and
Speaker 1 00:04:24 Witness. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. And back to your aspect of this very human experience was true that earlier in the week we were told, you know, by, by the Holy Father, please keep Pope Benedict in your prayers. He's gravely ill. And then I think it was just like Friday, the, the Vatican said, Pope Benedict has slept well, he seems to be doing better. And it was sort of like that. You get this sense of this up and down as toward the end of his life. He was very ill. Now, our prayers, thank you for your prayers. He seems to be doing better. And how often do we see that in our own lives and, and in the lives of our family members and friends. And as they're struggling with the end of life, and yet we say, oh, now they seem fine. This is good. Everything's gonna be okay. And, and then ultimately his passing.
Speaker 2 00:05:09 Well, you know, I think that this is all part of that whole process of living and dying. Well, death at the end of an illness isn't necessarily a failure. It's part of the walks of calvary again that we're all going to make at some point. And it ends in eternal life. It's a bridge. Mm-hmm. So he was, in some ways it sounds like he had that experience having lived well as a follower of Jesus Christ and then dying, well, being able to suffer it sounds like. I guess he was conscious to that whole period alert. And so it was less about the state of his health and probably more about that final walk, that walk to Calvary. True. And it sounds like it was a peaceful, tranquil walk with the Lord, but a walk that was returning home.
Speaker 1 00:05:58 Sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:05:59 You
Speaker 1 00:05:59 Know, did you read, I think his secretary released his last words in German, where Jesus, I love you. Yeah. How beautiful.
Speaker 2 00:06:07 You know, you're the pastor of St. Joseph Co. Cathedral and St. Teresa of Avala, but St. Joseph's the patron Saint f uh, a peaceful death. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> happy death. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right. And actually that St. Joseph was his patron. He was originally Joseph, uh, rat singer. Yes. That's a great gift to be able to pray for, isn't it? To be able to die surrounded by people who love you, who are praying for you. Yes. And couldn't get better than to be able just to have your last words. Jesus.
Speaker 1 00:06:34 Jesus, I love you. I love you. Wow. Wow.
Speaker 2 00:06:36 You see, I hadn't seen that statement, and I'm very moved by it, but I'm not surprised by it. So that was the, I think that was the thing about being alert. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's less about getting better, but more about being ready for the Lord, meeting the Lord with courage, meeting the Lord with trust, and most importantly, meeting the Lord with love.
Speaker 1 00:06:53 Amen. How beautiful. And I, I know that you were mentioning there's been a, some media requests and, and there was a, a great interest by the media and as because of the role and his importance, this historic occasion of his retirement or stepping down from this, the role of supreme pontiff after, I think, was it 600 years since the last Pope or 500 Right. But of course lived a, a long and fruitful life, 95 years old, God bless him. But you had some media inquiries, I know that quite excitingly, uh, b BBC had had you on, is that right? Tell me, how does that
Speaker 2 00:07:30 Happen? That's right. That's right. Well, first of all, I had to say I'm very grateful for the media interest in the Lake Ponte. I think it's a great thing that there's still in, even in the secular media, what happens in the life of the church matters mm-hmm. <affirmative> in the end. And so I was grateful for their interest and I found them to be very respectful, the ones that I spoke with. And they were looking for memories and they were looking for his legacy. But yes, at one point on a, actually it was uh, new Year's Eve night, I got an email from our press office. They had gotten something from New York State that b BBC was looking for somebody from New York. And so, yes, I spoke there and I guess that got a little bit of tension. So you know what the people are focusing in the looking for that personal sense of who Joseph Frazer was as a human being and who Pope Benedict was as a human being.
Speaker 2 00:08:19 So, you know, the memory I would share the most would be his gentleness. It was a certain kindness and gentleness, a certain interest in people. I had the chance merely to see him face-to-face three times. Just a great privilege. One accompanying Bishop Murphy on the Wednesday audience, actually, I actually, I actually had the chance to meet him before he was Pope through Bishop Murphy. He was just walking humbly down at St. Peter Square carrying a briefcase. And apparently that was a well known image of him. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, he'd be wearing the long great, uh, the long uh, coat. And he was just walking through the square, heading back home after a day's work. And, uh, Bishop Murphy recognized him from behind it. Of course, Bishop Murphy, he worked in Rome, so he knew the world <laugh>. So he stopped to say hello. And I had the chance to greet him.
Speaker 2 00:09:04 Even there, he was genuinely interested in the person he was talking. He would ask me for example, so what do you do? What is you Vic General? So tell me what is that involve and how do you, what do you enjoy doing in your ministry? Wow. It was just a real kindness and gentle, almost like a grandfatherly kind of interest. And he had a tone to his voice that was very gentle. You can hear that German accent, <laugh>. It was just comforting. That was true at a Wednesday audience company, Bishop Murphy on uh, in that limina. And then when we were new Bishops, Benedict was the, who called me to serve the churches of Bishop. And so we had the orientation for the new bishops in there too, just kind to the whole group when we had the orientation, the whole group of bishops, and then one by one.
Speaker 2 00:09:47 So, so that's my personal recollection of him. But you know, he served the churches in remarkable ways. Going back to his very early years as a priest. He was always a scholar. Sure. Teaching university. And he was known by his students for that same thing. He could teach very complicated things in very understandable ways, but he did it with genuine interest in his students with that kindness. There were all kinds of tributes in his biography from students who just found him to be incredibly helpful to them as they were doing their studies and their research and their
Speaker 1 00:10:20 Writing. We're talking about, uh, recently you and I were talking about how his books, his writings I just read there, he published 66 books, <laugh>. Um, so he was obviously a very learned, and there's no doubt about that. I wonder if perhaps one day we'll see him honored with the title of Doctor of the Church. What do you think about that, Bishop,
Speaker 2 00:10:42 Whether you're honored with the title or not? He certainly helped to deepen the intellectual and spiritual life of the church. And you know, one of the things I always say is I think that God gives us the hope that we need at the time. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, I think Pope St. John Paul the second just rallied us together. And, you know, he challenged the forces of evil, communism and all of that Nazi mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And he rallied a sense of excitement for the church. And then I think what we needed in the time Benedict was a certain sense then of deepening that faith, of getting to know the mystery of God, coming to know Jesus as a person. You see, as you said his last words, Jesus, I love you. Mm. Wow. I mean, that just says so much because I think that sums up his mission.
Speaker 2 00:11:28 It wasn't about intellect, it was to get to know Jesus. Really. To know Jesus. If you read his writings, that's what it's about. It's a form of profound discipleship. He was always calling us to know Jesus. One of my favorite writings of his were the Jesus of Nazareth books. Yes. In fact. Yes. Which is unusual for a pope because basically a Pope writes encyclicals and he did, he wrote very important in cyclicals. But basically those are somewhat dogmatic teachings. This is the possible, uh, Peter, this is the vicar of Christ speaking to the church definitively in a certain sense. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And you don't mean infallible teaching cuz that has its own category, but this is usually a pop speaks definitively in the Jesus of Nazarus books. He's book as a teacher when he just put it out there to say, I invite scholars to react to this. And the idea being that we can go deeper through this exploration and come to know Jesus better.
Speaker 1 00:12:19 Yes. And you had mentioned, even in reading those three book series of Jesus of Nazareth, how it impacted even your preachings, the ways in which you view the scriptures
Speaker 2 00:12:29 Very, very much. The first that he published was really the middle book in the series, and it's sort of the life and the teaching of Jesus. And there's some beautiful essays about the Sermon on the mound and about the parables. And it just gets you to look at the parables in a new light and say, see some of the details and say, wow, what is Jesus teaching me? What is Jesus teaching me today in 2023 through the parables, but the Sermon on the mountains, I had my own personal reasons for choosing the motto I did from the Lord's Prayer, I will be Done. Um, and we've talked about that before. But a contributing factor and a very important contributing factor was his essay on the Lord's Prayer as part of the Sermon on the mound in that Jesus of Nazareth book. That just kind of took something that was meaningful to me, but again, invited me in to go deeper. So I was really inspired,
Speaker 1 00:13:21 Really, in sharing my experiences when Pope Benedict came to New York in 2008. Yes. That was quite a visit. Really. What a highlight. What a highlight. And, and for me, I was a, a college seminary and I was a, a senior in college seminary. We had the opportunity, you know, the Diocese of Brooklyn, as I think Cardinal Dolan points out, you can't come to New York by airplane without entering the Diocese of Brooklyn. So the Pope came and left through our diocese, and we had the opportunity to greet him at the airport and actually have a ceremony there as he was departing. What an exciting time that was for me. But the highlight I think for me at the time as a college student was his visit to Dunwoody Yes. To St. Joseph Seminary
Speaker 2 00:14:06 Where many of our priests have formed today. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Speaker 1 00:14:09 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what an experience. And you were remarking about his homily there. And I did take a look at what his words, how he spoke, really calling to mind the lives of the saints of our city.
Speaker 2 00:14:20 Yeah. Well, the saints of the US Saints, but very particularly ones with New York connections. Yeah. So you had people like Elizabeth Anne Seaton, mother Cabrini, St. John Norman. You had people like Kati Tekoa, venerable, Pierre Toon, so many people who had tremendous impacts. And I love the way he spoke about how each of them was very different from the others. Each of them had their own unique calling, their own unique way of impacting the life of the United States, whether it be through care of the immigrants, through the establishment of schools serving as a bishop in Philadelphia. He said, many of these saints may have even impacted your own ancestors. And that's true with St. John Noman, with my family. I found out my father's family descends from generations of coal miners in Pennsylvania and their parish in Hec Churchville, near Potsdam was a place where John Norman loved to visit.
Speaker 2 00:15:15 And I'm thinking to myself, there may have been some connection, you know? Sure. But a tu former, a slave who began a new life and holiness. So he talked about how each of them had their different way of approaching things, but they all had one thing in common, loved for Jesus Christ. And then I loved his question, he said, and what of today, who bears witness to the good news of Jesus on the streets of New York, in the troubled neighborhoods of large cities, in places where the young gather, seeking someone in whom they can trust God is our origin and our destination. And Jesus is the way. I love when that happens. You know? So here it is, the bicker of Christ, the universal shepherd of the world is asking, okay, here's my message for you in New York.
Speaker 1 00:16:00 Yes. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:16:01 So h how about us? What about today? Who bears witness to the good news of Jesus on the streets of New York? And so he was saying you in front of him then now he's saying to all of us, you, all of you who are listening, all of you who gather in our parishes, again, we're all different. One of the beautiful things about the diocese in Brooklyn and in Queens is diversity. You hear that said all the time, it's celebrated. And that's, it is, it's, that's one of our great sources of pride as a church. But it's not just diversity. We are united by something very, very important. And that is our faith in Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1 00:16:40 Amen. Amen.
Speaker 2 00:16:42 That faith, that love for Jesus Christ, which then goes out to the world, which now shines swarth from the world.
Speaker 1 00:16:49 I imagine, you know, you'll talk more about this in next week's podcast, but imagine proclaiming those words, that statement to the 17,000 youth that are right now with you in that conference of seek to say, what about today? You know, who, who will proclaim
Speaker 2 00:17:05 You can be an idea
Speaker 1 00:17:06 <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:17:07 Not that I'm gonna speak to all 17,000, but I may get that in there somewhere.
Speaker 1 00:17:11 Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great inspired by the Holy Father. By the late Holy Father. I also had an opportunity to greet him when I was a student in Rome. And it was the anniversary of the Pontifical North American College. We had a private audience and we were all Oh yes. Able to, to greet
Speaker 2 00:17:26 Him. Yes, I remember that. Tell me
Speaker 1 00:17:27 About it. That was just, we, it was just an awesome experience to get the tour of the Vatican itself, the inner workings. Obviously we, everyone knows St. Peter's. But to be able to walk through the areas that normally would never have been allowed to enter, to have our audience with him and to each be able to greet him, to shake his hand, to kiss his ring, to reverence the shepherd's ring, what a, an experience it was just, I think anytime we're in the presence of, of the Holy Father, there's such a, a tangible excitement. Yes. A rejuvenating experience. And it's not the person, it's whom he represents, it's just was for me, a, a great, great experience. And so, you know, a lot of my friends and or anyone who has a photo with a Holy Father that give tribute to him and
Speaker 2 00:18:15 To, to him and to that sense of love that he had for all his people. Absolutely. You know, uh, back in Dunwoody, two other things I wanted to point out in, uh, his visit in Dunwood, he won is, you know, the name Benedict, he took that from Benedict 15th, who was a poke during the time of war. And that sense of peace, that working for peace was so incredibly important to him. And he spoke, he said, my own years as a teenager were Marty by a sinister regime that thought that it had all the answers. Its influence grew infiltrating schools and civic bodies as well as politics and even religion. You know, and he spoke about how that sinister mentality, faith group, that the Nazis mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> that would the effect you, you know, that had a profound effect on his life growing up under, under Nazi Germany.
Speaker 2 00:18:59 Sure. You know, he, that always stayed with him as he called for peace and he chose that name Benedict. So, you know, we think of some of the, um, impacts that some, some of those our leaders have had in their years of formation growing up. And then the other thing, he spoke to the seminarians, and I just love what he said to the seminarians. He said, you know, the people of God look to you to be holy priests on a daily conversation, inspiring others to desire to enter more deeply into the ecclesial life believers. I urge you to deepen your friendship with Jesus, the good shepherd. Talk heart to heart with him. You know, again, that to me, that's his legacy. I think it's a hard thing for people to capture cuz they look for great things. But some, what he did is he called every one of us to, uh, deepen a profound friendship with Jesus Christ. To me, that's his greatest legacy. And it brings us to, to his final words. Jesus, I love you. Amen. Well, thank you for this opportunity, this special podcast. We'll look forward to, uh, sharing with you some of the excitement of this week in focus next week. But in the meantime, we pray for our Holy Father. We pray for the church throughout the world during this week of remembrance and of gratitude.
Speaker 1 00:20:13 Well, why don't we, uh, bishop, we end in prayer.
Speaker 2 00:20:16 Good. In the name of the Father and of the Son of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Lord God, we thank you for the gift of the pontificate and the ministry and service of our late beloved ponti of emeritus Benedict 16th. We ask you, Lord, to grant to him the fullness of the resurrection. Um, that his life spent in friendship and in love for Jesus Christ may now be seen in all its glory for him as he sees Jesus face-to-face. We pray for your church during this time of remembrance. Help us all to hear his call, to deepen our own friendship with Jesus Christ and to grow in his love. And we pray for his eternal soul as we pray eternal res grant to him
Speaker 1 00:20:56 All Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon him.
Speaker 2 00:21:00 May he rest in peace.
Speaker 1 00:21:01 Amen.
Speaker 2 00:21:02 And may his soul and the souls of all the faith and departed through the mercy of God. Rest, rest in peace.
Speaker 1 00:21:08 Amen. Amen. Amen. The name of the Father, son, and Holy Spirit. Amen. We will continue to pray for our Holy Father, Pope Benedict the 16th for his soul and for the continued grace and success and health and wellbeing of our current pontiff Pope Francis. Until next time, we wish you all a very blessed week. God bless.
