Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:10 Well, welcome back to another edition of big city Catholics, a podcast recording with Bishop Robert Brennan, the Bishop of the diocese of Brooklyn, myself, father, Christopher HEU rector of, uh, the co cathedral here this, uh, week we're joined by father Joseph wasta, who is a priest of the diocese's of Brooklyn, uh, in a special assignment. He's working as a professor at Pope John, the 23rd seminary national seminary in Boston and father wasta joins us very qualified to talk a little bit about our topic of the day, uh, which is a very busy Supreme court session, but at the root of it at all, these recent rulings is the dignity, uh, and sanctity of human life. And so we're happy to, to have you father WASA, uh, with us today. Uh, but before we begin, I think we should ask our blessed mother for her intercession on, on this podcast. And, uh, because of our recent, uh, events this week, our lady of Mount Carmel feast I think is appropriate. And so we can begin in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit, amen. Hail Mary full of grace. The Lord is with the blessed art thou amongst women and blessed it as the fruit of the th wound Jesus,
Speaker 2 00:01:19 Holy Mary mother of God. Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Speaker 1 00:01:24 The name of the father, son and holy spirit. Amen. Now, Bishop Brennan, uh, recently you and I were both at the, uh, opening of the, uh, feast of our lady of Mount Carmel in, uh, in Williamsburg.
Speaker 2 00:01:36 Talk about a taste of Brooklyn. So I <laugh>, I've always heard about the Mount Carmel, uh, festival and, um, always said, well, wouldn't it be nice to see that I never dreamed I'd be opening the, for sure, the festival and leading the procession, but wow, what a night, what an experience that was
Speaker 1 00:01:55 A beautiful night. I mean, the weather was perfect. And, uh, so we, it's the 135th anniversary of this, uh, of this event. And, um, you know, you see that the Julio up close and personal, what, what were your thoughts on, on that Bishop? I,
Speaker 2 00:02:13 Oh, it was immense <laugh>, uh, I think I'm gonna have to make my way somewhere along the line, when they do the lifting of the Julio yesterday, our procession took us out into the streets with the statue of our lady of Mount Carmel. And that in itself was quite an experience, but I UN I know on the weekend and next week there'll be, uh, more processions with the lifting of the Julio. And I hear that is quite the experience.
Speaker 1 00:02:38 Fathers WASA spent some summers, uh, at our lady Bon Carmel.
Speaker 3 00:02:42 Yeah, two summers as a seminarian. I was there and it really is something it's a, it's a real feat of strength to see the, uh, the Julio lifted. And I never got to go on the Julio when it's lifted. But part of the, the weight is that they have a band on the Julio. They have the pastor on the, or maybe the Bishop, if the Bishop goes on the Julio and it's, uh, it's a real Fe of strength to move it down. The, uh, down the street there,
Speaker 1 00:03:07 They dance, they dance it, they call it dancing of the Julio. Um,
Speaker 3 00:03:11 And they have the boat too. Um, one of the Sundays, there's also a boat that they also lift and they meet at some point in
Speaker 1 00:03:18 The middle. Now you're walking through the streets Bishop yesterday. I mean, I, I must, I do admit to our faithful, I was there at math. I chose, I chose the easier way out. Uh, uh, it was very warm and humid. And I said, I'm gonna just stay here and wait for the procession to return. But you walk through the streets of Williamsburg, which, I mean, as in all of these neighborhoods, in our diocese cha change every five years, you know, and, uh, Williamsburg has seen a rapid change in, in gentrification. And, uh, from, I mean, 30 years ago, what kind of a neighborhood, it was very Italian. Then it was get a little more dangerous of a city of a neighborhood. And now all these new buildings, even across the street from Mount Carmel is a hotel. I just noticed that yesterday, all these buildings, they just pop up out of the blue, but what was that experience like?
Speaker 2 00:04:09 And you might say that it's a, it's in its current form. It's a very secular
Speaker 1 00:04:15 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:04:16 Um, approach to, to life there. But, uh, Monsignor, Jamie would say in the midst of it all, a lady Mount Carmel stands right there in the middle. Yeah. And so with all of the changes over these 135 years, a lady of Mount Carmel has stood right there in the middle of it all. So it's, it's this presence of God in, in a world that's constantly changing, but the steadiness, the stabilizing factor is this presence of God. And I often say this about any kind of processions that what we do when we make these processions is exactly what we're called to do in our daily Christian lives to encounter Christ at the altar, and then to take our faith out into the streets. That's right. And so this is a very literal expression of that mandate of the Lord Jesus. Yeah. To take our faith out into the streets, to, to witness by the authenticity of our lives, the joy of our lives by our Christian witness, not by not with clubs and, uh, daggers, not yelling and screaming, you know, like, uh, the, the image in the, uh, prophetize Isaiah, my here's my servant to my uphold, you know, but indeed we, by the joy, the witness of our lives, and by our speaking, the truth of the gospel, I, I put them together, the joy of the gospel splendor of truth.
Speaker 2 00:05:39 That's what we call to do. And boy, did we do that in a major way at the opening of the festival? And I think you with more to come.
Speaker 1 00:05:46 Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:05:48 Couple years ago I was at the feast and I was dressed as a priest. And one of the, um, more recent arrivals in the neighborhood came up to me and said, um, is that building over there? Is that the church he was pointing to early Mount Carmel church? And I said, yeah, that's the church. He said, could I ever go in and maybe see that sometime? And he said, oh yeah, of course it's during the whole feast, it's, it's open, you know, pretty much 24 hours a day. He said, oh, that'd be really interesting to go and see that. And he was, he said, that'd be more interesting, interesting than going to some of these commercial things that are set up for the feast. So really it, what you were saying is very true that it does draw in people from a very different perspective in life and could possibly be a way that God will speak to them to draw them more closely to themself.
Speaker 2 00:06:35 And in some ways that absolutely happens. There are individuals who are so touched that, that it, you, you see a radical transformation or, or, or a deepening of curiosity. In other cases, it may be more gradual. It may just, it may not be a conscious, um, transformation, but maybe in a moment of crisis in a moment of need, somebody might say, you know, let me turn this way. And that the expressions and the joy and the message of the gospel might say somebody, you know what, I need God in my life
Speaker 1 00:07:09 And that they know it's and that they know that they
Speaker 2 00:07:11 Know where
Speaker 1 00:07:12 To find it's. Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. I find, uh, the, the faith of, of it just the culturally, but also, uh, just very moving, you know, there's the, the statue of our lady Mount Carmel now stands in this grotto area for the, for the duration of the, of the feast. And people come and they like candles vote of candles. And, and, uh, they pin the first time I saw, you know, when I came for the first time they pin money, you know, on, on like a ribbon down onto the statue, uh, onto the statue. And, uh, uh, it's a very interesting, you know, growing up at Irish Catholic, you know, I, we, we didn't ever pinned money to, I didn't know what that was, what that was about. So it was, it's a nice, it's a, it's really, it is a taste of a culture. Um, but it's a taste of Catholicism for, for these, for the people of the neighborhood, you know,
Speaker 2 00:08:02 And speaking of taste, if I can go secular mom, boy, the smells as we were walking through. And, uh, the food looks absolutely delicious. Yes. So this feast continues for a little while. It goes through the feast of our Ladia Mount, the feast day of our Ladia Mount Carmel is July 16th. And I think the feast goes through that weekend. That's right. The two Sundays of the lifting of the Julio and on Wednesday night, I think that's right the night lift the night lift. So, uh, there's, there are still plenty of opportunities, uh, for those who are joining us immediately after to, uh, to stop by and to visit the festival of Valia of Mount Carmel.
Speaker 1 00:08:42 Amen. Yeah. We wished them, uh, good weather and, and, you know, Bishop was remarking yesterday. He said in your, your previous ministry is in, in long island in long beach, you helped run a fair, you ran a parish fair, and there's a lot of work
Speaker 2 00:08:56 For it's a lot of work. And so can imagine what a lot of work is involved with the smaller fair to connect that, to, um, what they do here. Oh boy,
Speaker 3 00:09:07 I know in Mount Carmel, it basically they plan a year in advance. Yeah. For the two week feast every year. And it's such a, a big undertaking and many people are involved. And a lot of people that grew up in the neighborhood come back right. For the feast. They may have moved away, but they come back. People come back from all over the country even to volunteer and to attend the, uh, the feast every year. That's
Speaker 1 00:09:30 Awesome. That's awesome. Well, looking forward to, are you, you planned Bishop to maybe,
Speaker 2 00:09:35 Oh, I'll some spot visits. Oh, absolutely. I have to see the, uh, lifting of the Julia at some point. So I may just show up it's worth now father Joseph. It is so good to have you here today. And I appreciate you coming by. You're spending your summer months here in, in Brooklyn and Queens, uh, helping us out and reconnecting with your home diocese. Uh, you, you never lose sight of who you are, and I appreciate that a whole lot, but the work that you are doing is so incredibly important. You're helping to form the priest who are going to serve not only our diocese, but diocese throughout the country.
Speaker 3 00:10:10 That's right. Yeah. I've, I've just, uh, begun my third year on the faculty of, as father Chris had before poke John the 23rd national seminary in we Massachusetts, which is about 15 miles outside of Boston to suburb of Boston. I'm a priest of Brooklyn, but two years ago, I, uh, began to be on the faculty of, uh, Pope John's seminary. It's a unique seminary in the United States because we cater, especially to, uh, older vocations, meaning, uh, men who discern a vocation who are beginning formation for the priesthood that are aged 30 years or older. And we have a big range of ages. You know, some are around 30, some are in their sixties. We have a big range, the meeting age, somewhere in the middle, but we especially cater to older vocations. Those who guys who have really begun their formation a little later in life. And, you know, it's really a joyful place. I know you've visited many times Bishop and it's a, a unique and, and very joyful place. And I really, uh, enjoy my work there. I just became academic Dean in, in addition to being congratulations
Speaker 2 00:11:22 On that, we're very, very proud of you. We're proud to have you there.
Speaker 3 00:11:25 Thank you. So now I oversee the whole, um, academic program and work with our professors, work with our students and, and achieving their, uh, intellectual, uh, goals and, uh, making sure that that everything is, um, is set up correctly for their, uh, academic formation. So they can be, you know, good priests and, and good, uh, preachers when, when they get out into their various diocese. And we have a number of Brooklyn seminarians with us. So I'm really happy to be doing this work.
Speaker 2 00:11:56 You know, this is, unless you think you, you get lost on, um, the importance of this, our ordination class, this year three, um, new priests, all of them formed at Pope St. John, the 23rd.
Speaker 3 00:12:12 That's right. They were all students of mine. Actually. I had them for three courses last year, uh, the three new priests for Brooklyn. So, um, I hope that they're well prepared and they're, uh, ecclesiology and sacramental theology and, uh, the sacrament of holy orders that I, I taught them. So
Speaker 2 00:12:30 I'm confident. I am confident. I'm, I'm impressed by all three of them. And we still, as you mentioned, have other fellas, um, in the other years, and I think somebody will be joining you, uh, this coming, uh, fall. So, uh, as when I was in Columbus, that was my first real exposure. I knew about John the 23rd when I was growing up and I served as a priest in Rockville center. But, um, I, my real experience was, um, when I was Bishop in Columbus and we had men studying there. So as you mentioned, I got to visit at that point. And that's really when I had a chance to talk to you at length.
Speaker 3 00:13:05 Yeah. And we had, um, you, we still have quite a few, uh, seminaries in yes. Do Columbus.
Speaker 2 00:13:10 Well, you have a few returning because we instituted the pastoral year there. That's right. And so, uh, yes, one of the, the, actually there, the only deacon for this year was, uh, for Columbus was ordained. Um, but formed that Peter Claver, Peter Claver, Peter Claver, uh, so he was ordained, um, in may for Columbus. So you're doing great work and, and important work father, Kylie, the rector of, of the seminary and the faculty. I know a number of the faculty through their Boston connections. I'm really, really impressed. And, and I appreciate your own personal work there.
Speaker 1 00:13:48 Thank you. Yeah. I've had opportunities to visit a few times too, and, uh, it's beautiful seminary, very, very, uh, beautiful library, um, great grounds. And, uh, the
Speaker 3 00:13:59 Learning center, we call
Speaker 1 00:14:00 It a learning center, excuse me, <laugh> and, uh, just an enjoyable, uh, enjoyable place to, to be an enjoyable place to visit now, father, uh, wasta is more than qualified to be on faculty there. Um, uh, father, uh, wasta is a graduate of Georgetown university. He studied, um, government and, uh, and then after, uh, where we met when he was in pre theology and I was a college seminarian in Douglaston father Zo was sent off to Rome for, for studies and later received his li and his doctorate in a humanism from the Angelica in, uh, in Rome. And so, uh, you bring a lot of, uh, different backgrounds, backgrounds of government for humanism, uh, just an intellectual, uh, I can attest to that. Um, so we're happy that you're, uh, joining us for the conversation that you were, you know, Bishop and I were chatting recently about, um, just this very busy Supreme court session
Speaker 2 00:15:03 Right last week. Um, in our podcast last week, we had a representative from bridge to life and we spoke very specifically about the Dobbs versus Jackson, um, decision. And our compensation then was about saying, okay, we've always advocated the overturning of our, the Wade. We, we still, um, look for the conversion of hearts and minds to, to the day when, when, when all of society will embrace that, um, culture of life, the gospel of life. Um, but that, one of the things we've always said is it's not just about bringing the child to birth, but we have a responsibility to provide, um, and support people in need and organizations like bridge to life, help us to do that. We've been there on the forefront. Catholics particularly are very generous to a lot of these organizations, both in terms of expertise and volunteering as well as, um, material support, but it goes well beyond.
Speaker 2 00:16:12 And, and so we have to step up now, now that we, now we have to show that we stand behind what we've been advocating all along, but the other component of this recent Supreme court, uh, session is that that ethic of pro-life witness runs across, again, it, it, it under, uh, underlies everything. It's the foundational piece to all of our approach, to, um, public policy, whether it be our fight against racism, our care for the poor, seeing the dignity of every human person at every moment. Um, and, and, and the freedom of that human person created in the image and likeness of God. So with that in mind, we thought we could talk about some of the other decisions, but even how we, that witness, um, runs across the whole, uh, agenda.
Speaker 3 00:17:08 It was such a momentous decision, uh, Dobbs V Jackson. I think it's gonna be remembered as one of the, the most important consequential rulings in, you know, the history of the Supreme court, uh, especially among those rulings that, you know, corrected something that was egregiously wrong to use a phrase that's in the decision itself that Roe V Wade was, uh, you know, egregiously wrong from the start, uh, because it found in the constitution a right to abortion that just was never intended to be there and, and never was there. And so it really corrected a fundamental injustice, and that's gonna allow certain states to, um, to enact laws and policies that will protect the unborn. And that's, that's a great foundation. As you say, Bishop, it's not the be all end all. It's not, you know, the end of our pro-life witness at all, but it, it allows us in certain instances to, um, to take the next steps.
Speaker 2 00:18:18 It allows for conversation, and which has not been allowed in the last 49 years, that at least now we can have some, uh, calm and, and reasoned conversations about the nature of human life, about the beginnings of human life. And the fact of the matter is there's widespread support, you know, for, for some kinds of protections. That's right. Again, I'd love to see the cultural embrace of all of life. I really do, but just the, the fact is most people do not think it's appropriate to be able to take the life of a child without limit up to, and maybe even at the moment of birth. So, uh, where can we find widespread support? Where do we build on this dignity of the human person?
Speaker 3 00:19:10 Yeah, there's a fundamental principle in, in our, you know, Catholic tradition when it comes to public policy and, and legal matters, you know, maybe we can't get, you know, all of the laws that we would in a, the best of all possible worlds, you know, get enacted, but we can make, take some steps in the right direction. And I think that this decision will help many states at least take some steps in the right direction on this particular issue.
Speaker 2 00:19:40 It's interesting. It's the critics would say, well, you know, they take this as an attack on democracy. Well, I think it's quite the opposite. It's it actually re restores it to the democratic process and lets people actually to have now healthy debates. Um, whereas before it was sort of just imposed and you couldn't, uh, even even talk about it.
Speaker 3 00:20:00 Yeah. There's, there's fundamental. I think widespread misunderstanding about what Roe V. Wade actually said people, I think many people tend to think, oh, it, it, it stands for some sort of, um, right to an abortion at a very stage only. Whereas really if you read the text and accompanying decisions and things that came after it really, um, disallowed any regulation of abortion, pretty much up till the moment of birth, right. And that's something that a lot of people misunderstand, but when you ask people, are you in favor of restrictions on abortion after 15 weeks wide majority almost. I think, uh, recent poll, I saw said three quarters, almost of people support bans and abortion after 15 weeks, which was the underlying case in DWI Jackson. If you go even to six weeks, you have almost a majority support for that. And, um, so people do, there is a wide spread, uh, support for at least, um, restrictions on abortion at a very early stage, much earlier than Roe V. Wade allowed.
Speaker 1 00:21:15 I, I just want also kind of input there that, um, perhaps, you know, as a, as a church, we, we often want to take this issue and say that the pro-life issue is a, is a, is just a, a faithful person's issue. You know, this is a person, a believer is a, is pro-life, but really it's also just a scientific issue. It's it's, you know, with the, with the advancement in, in ultrasounds, you know, you, you see, uh, the studies show that after, you know, that's a lot of, a lot of pregnancy centers when, when they're counseling a woman through this, these difficult moments, when the, the mother in this crisis sees with the, through the ultrasound that this life within her, um, it, it definitely makes it much more difficult for her to say, this is something I want to terminate. I want to end. And, uh, so I think maybe is this, is this a religious conversation, or is this just a conversation about, you know, the dignity of life Bishop yes, it's endowed because of God, because we are created in God's image and likeness. Um, and, and it's through the book of Genesis and, and very beginning of our creation, but, uh, is it a Catholic only issue because unfortunately, a critic,
Speaker 2 00:22:33 The Catholics, these things is both ends. So it's a very much a Catholic issue because it's, it, it, it flows out of our Catholic teaching, but you're correct. It's a human issue actually. And, and there's a, a public policy issue that's attached to it. And AC coming, you know, having had a little bit of experience outside of New York, um, when I was in Ohio, it, the, uh, the work, the pro-life work was, you know, Catholics only 10% of the population in Ohio. And actually there was a much wider spread support for life in many different denominations and secular organizations. So you're correct. It's, it's a wider issue. But the other thing I, I want us to spend some time on is that, you know, we don't, we, we, we speak about the abortion, the right to life as the preeminent issue, but it's not the only issue that involves the dignity of the human person.
Speaker 2 00:23:34 It's important. It's a preeminent because without that, right, all the others collapse, it's like a house of cards. If you don't have the right to life, you have no other rights really, but we can't lose sight of the fact that our pro-life witness is much, much wider, much more important here in New York state. And we're taking up the issue in terms of, um, the dignity of life at the end of life euthanasia. Um, we, but also we talk about, um, some of the social issues and the, the same principles are at work that that's, that's the beauty of the, of our faith. It's, it's that revealed natural law and reveal revealed law that even in natural law, the dignity of the human person is at the core of everything we teach. So when we talk about issues like racism, you can't be pro-life and be racist.
Speaker 2 00:24:28 You have to, because basically the, the racism is a sin against God. It's, you're looking at every person we need to look at every person, see deep into the eyes and see the image and the likeness of God. So, mm. So, so we, we, we want to, to be able to stand strong in, in respect for the dignity of every human person, same right now, a very troubling issue for us is violence. You and I, father Chris, we were at a prayer service at immaculate conception. That's right in Jamaica. And we spoke about gun violence, and many of the people there who themselves are pro-life witnesses, but they say, we have to keep in mind this, this gun violence. It, this too is a pro-life issue. And how true that is. That's right. Yeah. You know, at the time we were responding to a horrific attack in Buffalo, New York, and well, it was being planned in response to that.
Speaker 2 00:25:20 But then we heard about alti and now just this past weekend, we had the unthinkable act at the July 4th celebration in Highland park, Illinois. But at the very same time, what a horrendous week, last week was for New York city nonviolence right here in New York city. That's right, right here in New York city. And really throughout the country, there's, there's something terribly, terribly wrong. And, and just like with the abortion debate, we need to find a way to sit down and talk to one another and build on things that have widespread support, because we can indeed accomplish something important.
Speaker 3 00:25:59 One of the other big Supreme court rulings, this term was New York state rifle and pistols association V Bruin. And I know there was some concern over that ruling, cuz it did strike down at least part of a New York state law regarding the licensing of firearms. Didn't say that, you know, anyone could have a gun without any licensing whatsoever, but it, it found that New York state's licensing regime was a little bit too restrictive with regard to, you know, the second amendment, right. To, um, for an individual to own and carry a, uh, a handgun. But, uh, it does, the Supreme court does still allow states to implement certain, you know, restrictions or licensing let's say of, uh, who can carry a gun. And there's a lot of discussion over how to right.
Speaker 2 00:26:53 And we need do that, not to jump quickly to the politics, but to have these reason conversations because you're right. It it's basically the Supreme court decision is looking at the constitutionality of the laws himself, but it doesn't say that you can't make these laws. It just, you have to find ways to do it. I was very happy to see some of the, the bipartisan work on the federal level, some of it here on the state level. So it's encouraging to see people, our legislators sitting down and saying, okay, where can we find agreement, common ground and, and where can we make a positive difference? And, and we have to do that. So, so there has to be some level of control. Um, some level of, you know, of agreement on, you know, some of the acts that we've seen, how are these things happening and how can we prevent them from happening with the access to guns and to violence? The other question comes to enforcement of it and, and, you know, recognizing some of the troubling signs that allow some people to get the guns who clearly, clearly should not have it. Um, but then the illegal guns and the violence that comes from that we have as a society, a lot of work to do, but we have to begin by speaking to one another and listening to one another. And unfortunately I think we're doing an awful lot of shouting and screaming at one with closed ears at one another.
Speaker 3 00:28:23 Yeah. There's such division really in, in the country. And, you know, part of the, um, you know, the reality with these, you know, kind of high profile Supreme court rulings, you know, you have half of the country will say, I like the result of that ruling, right. Half will say I don't like it. And vice versa depending on, you know, what the ruling happens to be. But you know, at the foundation of a lot of these rulings is the question of, you know, who decides and how do these questions get decided and really, you know, in our country, the way that I was just thinking about this, especially, you know, July 4th just passed. And a lot of, you know, when you look at the, the way our country and, and its foundational documents are constituted is a sort of balancing of, um, separation of powers. So not, you know, how do we properly, uh, check and balance the influence of one branch over another? And how do we properly balance the role of the federal government versus the role of state governments, cuz we're a huge country, 330 million people. And the concerns in Ohio are very different than the concerns in New York, in many cases or Wyoming or Texas or Arizona
Speaker 1 00:29:48 Father. Could you give us, I like that. Um, you know what you're talking about, the Supreme court ruling one half of the country say, yes, they're finally on my side and then they rule something, you know, next case and, and that same, you know, group that was saying, you know, we're, we're, we're so supportive of that last ruling. Well, we're not really supportive of this one. And you realize, well that this is the balance of, of the powers. Can you give us, you know, just in, in the recent ones, in these recent, uh, rulings, give us an idea of what, what you're, you're referring to.
Speaker 3 00:30:24 So, I mean, just in general, we, we a distinguish between the executive, the, uh, legislative and the judicial powers. There's like the three powers that any government really exercises and in our system, they're divided between three branches of government. So basically Congress has legislative power. The president has executive power and the, the Supreme court and lower courts have the judicial power with the executive power. Obviously there are a lot of, um, departments that assist the president and his powers, but a lot of the, the kind of, um, Supreme court rulings have something to do with, you know, distinguishing and determining whether those powers are being properly, um, exercised. And if the, uh, executive is sort of string into the legislative power or Congress is somehow a string. If the executive power, then the Supreme court often will intervene. But, uh, oftentimes the sort of underlying principles get a little bit obscured in favor of, do I like the result of this ruling or do I not like it, but you know, our system is, uh, set up in a certain way. And, uh, it's, it's stood this test of time over 200, almost 250 years. So, um, different Supreme courts that are cons, uh, different members, like depending on who's constitu Supreme court at any given time will rule perhaps in a different way. But I think this current court is really, you know, trying to adhere to the, uh, the original understanding of the constitution and the laws, you know, when they've been, uh, passed by the, the people that have passed them, you know, fundamentally in that sort of democratic tradition.
Speaker 2 00:32:22 Sure. You know, the other thing is that when these decisions are made, then we look at well, how do we do take our responsibility as Catholics to shape public policy? And, you know, it's not just our, in our role as Catholics it's Catholics, we witness to the gospel. But the fact of the matter is as, as American citizens, every American citizen is called to be part of that national debate to be and local debate so that we, we have responsibilities as Americans to, to talk about these things and to bring our own experience, our own, uh, faith to that, that wider discussion. So I'm gonna go back for a little bit to the, the RO and the overturning of Roe back in, in this earlier part of the spring, the bishops of New York issued, uh, a letter, um, about, you know, envisioning a New York state that, that, that embraces that wider value of life.
Speaker 2 00:33:23 And it goes back again to saying, it's not just about birth, but it's also saying, okay, what, what kinds of legislations do we a advocate for that, um, help a mother to keep a child? What kind of care for the poor, what kind of educational opportunities, what kind of child support is, is available? Um, the, there are many, it, it very often we can get divided into, uh, camps and, and, um, it's either liberal, conservative, Democrat, Republican, and, and the fact of the matter is the Catholic vision is much wider. It's much, much wider. And so it, it, it has that pro-life view, but it also, um, supports a system then that can help people to overcome the hurdles. That's right. Okay. The same is true. Now we talk about violence. So, you know, we, we kind of go back and forth over the party lines because what we're trying to get at is not, um, a particular partisan agenda through, but what we really are interested in is the dignity of the human person created in the image and likeness of God and our responsibility as a society to witness to that in our public policy.
Speaker 3 00:34:42 I think of the work of such groups as, um, the, uh, sisters of life who are so active in our city, uh, you know, they were founded in our area and they're working with individuals, individual mothers in Christ, crisis, pregnancies or mothers that, um, uh, have given birth and have, you know, done the right thing and, and embraced life, but need help, you know, after, after their children are born and they're working with individuals and we, we can't lose sight of, you know, the work that's being done on the individual level on all these various, uh, issues that sometimes, you know, we can have the tendency to just think in terms of politics or in terms of what laws can we get passed, or how can we get the Supreme court to rule the way we want. Um, and that's very important, but really so much work is done on the local levels, you know, on, uh, in communities to make a real difference in the lives of people that are affected by these various issues.
Speaker 2 00:35:47 We talk about the principle of subsidiary.
Speaker 3 00:35:51 That's a fundamental, uh, principle in Catholic social teaching basically is that, um, social and political issues should be resolved at the most local possible level. Uh, and it's, uh, related to something we were discussing a few minutes ago, the idea of, um, it's gonna be better for the communities if the individual issues are decided on a very local level, as opposed to a, even a state level or a federal level. So that that's also a principle. I think that is enshrine in our constitution and the idea of federalism that the federal government does certain things. Um, and there's certain things that only the federal government can do. We think of, especially like national defense, that's something really that our founding fathers saw needed to be do needed, needed to be done on a national level, but when it comes to, you know, more particular policies, those should really be determined at the state level or even at the city level town level, community level,
Speaker 2 00:37:00 Precisely, precisely. And so for us, the, we wanna participate at those various levels in the conversation I wanna wanted to, um, mention one or two resources that we as Catholics can do to stay current on the issues. And again, to try to step out of the partisan lanes, you know, um, because the, the Catholic position often embraces elements from, from your side side, really. So, um, so here in New York, the New York state Catholic conference, um, it's, uh, the, the website is www New York N Ys catholic.org. Um, and, um, you would, you'd be able to look at some of the different legislation, the issues, and an indepth analysis at a lot of these things here in the New York area. Um, on the us level, you have the us C CB, um, S C cb.org. And, and it's funny, I've been getting Bishop's mail for many, many years now, both in my prior roles.
Speaker 2 00:38:08 And, uh, and as a Bishop myself, and, you know, sometimes the bishops are accused of being too, too much on the Democrat agenda sometimes on too much on the Republican agenda. The fact of the matter is we strive to be on the gospel agenda. And, um, and there were things that people of Goodwill can talk about and disagree on, you know, uh, on practically how do we achieve these goals? But the goals have always to be the dignity of the human person, and that goes in immigration, it goes in violence, it goes in, um, it, it goes in racism. Uh, it goes in healthcare, it goes across the board. How would we achieve some of those things? Yeah, there was, there were good debates that we can have to say, how do we get there? But the, the dignity of the human person has to be the very foundational piece.
Speaker 2 00:39:07 So, um, so I invite you to look in, on those resources and, um, and, and on the analysis. And, uh, and then as you said, uh, Francis foster to get involved in another way to get involved by our personal attention with organizations like the sisters for life, like bridge to life, like, like, um, um, the, uh, life center, there are so many opportunities, like many of our parishes were going to be doing the walking with moms in need. Um, it it's really about, again, responding to human dignity by our work, by our care, by, um, our witness
Speaker 1 00:39:50 Just wanna, uh, also end, perhaps in closing, just knowing that you, as a, as the Dias and Bishop would know Bishop that, uh, here at the co cathedral, we did a, a mother's in need, uh, drive. And, um, we were finding different organizations to, to donate to, and after our conversation last week with, uh, Julia Cheetos from bridge the bridge to life, uh, we were able to drop, uh, an SUV filled with, uh, diapers and Pampers and, and, and baby bottles and, uh, bibs and clothes, uh, for her to, to be able to give out to those, uh, to the mothers that come to her, her organization. So, uh, it is working it it's happening on a local level. Um, your churches in the diocese, many of which are, are supporting, uh, moms in need. Um, they are supporting the poor with their food pantries with St. Vincent DEPA societies. They are supporting, uh, education educational needs with all of the scholarships that we provide.
Speaker 2 00:40:53 Education is such an important thing. If we talk about things like the issues of, of violence and gun violence, uh, care, the me mental health and healthcare, um, uh, family support, you see part of the issue is the breakdown of the family. Yeah. And how do we support families? And so all of those things are, are important to us. And, and again, it's just so impressive to see the Catholic response in so many of these areas.
Speaker 3 00:41:20 And I think it's probably in, in those areas where we can find the most common ground with regard to, um, mental health issues and, and supporting families, there may be, especially in New York state, you know, we're probably not gonna be able to get, um, uh, legislation through that will restrict abortion, but we can perhaps get more legislation through, on those other issues that will, as, as you so rightly emphasize, you know, um, support the dignity of every human person.
Speaker 2 00:41:53 Exactly, exactly. We could go on for, for a very long time and really break down each of these. But, um, I think it's good that we close in prayer. Um, and I think a good prayer. It would be the prayer of St. Francis where, you know, it's not just a matter of saying, send us peace, but Lord make me an instrument of your peace. So let's pray in the name of the father and of the son of the holy spirit. Amen. Lord, make me an instrument of your peace, where there is hatred. Let me so love where there is injury. Pardon, where there is doubt faith, where there is despair hope, where there is darkness light and where there is sadness, joy or divine master grant. That, I mean, not so much seek to be console as to console to be understood as to understand, to be loved as to love for it is in giving that we receive it is imparting that we are pardoned and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life and male mighty God bless you this day. And always in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit. Amen. Amen.
Speaker 1 00:43:04 Amen. Thank you. Uh, father WASA for your presence with us on our, uh, podcast with my pleasure, Bishop Robert Brennan and myself, father Chris HEK. This has been another addition of big city Catholics. We hope you enjoyed it, and we hope that you'll tune in again next week. God bless.
