Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:10 Welcome back to another edition of our Dass and podcast Big City Catholics, with Bishop Robert Brennan, the Dass and Bishop of Brooklyn, and myself, father Christopher Henno. Today we're joined with the special guest, Monsignor Joseph Grimaldi. Monsignor is the Vicar General of the Diocese of Brooklyn, as well as, uh, pastor of St. Bernard's in Brooklyn. We're happy to have you, Monsignor, and we'll begin in prayer. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. We pray, our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Speaker 2 00:00:42 Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not to temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen. In the
Speaker 1 00:00:55 Name of the Father and of the Son of the Holy Spirit. Ah, amen.
Speaker 2 00:00:58 So welcome Monsignor Grimaldi. Monsignor Grimaldi is the Vicar general of the diocese. I served in that role in Rockville Center and I know from experience that it's a job that entails an awful lot. But for me personally, really the Vicar General is the person you interact with the most. I have a lot of people who assist me in many, many ways. As Vicar General, you and I talk just about every day, and it's a strong team that we work together, and the word vicar means to represent. So you really represent me in many different ways. So thank you for your service and welcome.
Speaker 3 00:01:37 Thank you, Bishop. It's been a pleasure working with you the last, uh, over a year now. And as you say, you know, our relationship in terms of our communication is really a daily thing and in terms of addressing diocesan issues that relate to clergy, personnel, parish issues, issues that are more on the diocesan level. So as you say, it's a variety of responsibilities, but it's certainly been a privilege for me to work in this position with you.
Speaker 2 00:02:04 Now, what we're talking about today is other kinds of vicars. So the Vicar General is in there by canon law an an important role. We had some news with the appointment of several vicars. These would be regional vicars, and they're Episcopal Vickers. In other words, they represent the bishop and they serve in territorial and regions of the diocese. You had served in that role under Bishop DeMaio. Right. Could you explain what that position really entails?
Speaker 3 00:02:34 Yes, I did. I served as regional territorial vicar for eight years under Bishop DeMaio. I was regional territorial vicar for Brooklyn at that time until just last week. When you reestablished the four regional vicars, there were two, one that encompassed all of the borough of Brooklyn and one all of, uh, the borough of Queens. It was great responsibility. As you know, we have close to 200, about 189 parishes now in the diocese. So each region of Brooklyn Queens had, you know, close to 80, 90 parishes in each. So it was quite a challenge, especially in light of the fact that both myself and the then territorial vicar for, uh, Queens, uh, both pastors, so it's regional into four regions in terms of leaving the men in as pastors of their respective parishes makes it a little bit more manageable. It does.
Speaker 2 00:03:32 It does. And you, but you started off as a full-time vicar, right?
Speaker 3 00:03:36 Correct. When I was originally named in 2012, I think to about 2017, it was a full-time position. I lived in residence in a parish, but my full-time responsibilities were being regional territorial vicar of Brooklyn. But then in light of the personnel issue and the need, uh, for pastors, uh, Bishop DiMaggio asked me at the time, if I would consider taking a parish. At the time, it was St. Bernard's, where I still presently am as father hen you mentioned, uh, it became a greater challenge to really have that ability, Bishop, to get around to the respective deaneries. I mean, there are still 11 in Brooklyn, 11 in Queens. We had associates that worked with each of us. I had Anna Puente who worked with me in Brooklyn, and Ellen Rattigan, who worked with Father Petty, who was the regional territorial vicar in Queen at the time.
Speaker 3 00:04:29 And they would help us in terms of being able when we weren't to attend the deanery meetings, because an important part of being a regional territorial vicar is to really be that liaison, you might say, between, uh, the bishop and the deans. As you know, deans are also vicars. They're called in canon law, vicars foreign, which means really vicars in the country. We don't have much country in Brooklyn, no <laugh>. But what it means basically is that they're out there. So in them now working very closely with the four regional territorial vicars, it makes it much more manageable for these new four regional territorial vicars to have a more sort of, you might say, hands-on in terms of them being able in a very practical way to attend the deanery meetings in their regions, since each of them respectively would have five or six deaneries within their vicars.
Speaker 3 00:05:27 So they have a responsibility. The vicars do the regional vicars in attending the meetings of the Deanaries in their own vicar, as well as calling a minimum of four annual, uh, meetings with their deans to discuss, you know, local deanery and parish issues. Again, to sort of have their ears to the ground about what's going on, what are some of the issues, how they can be of assistance. Because really the purpose of your establishing these bishop is to, you know, foster that greater overall collaboration. I remember when you were first named Bishop, you know, you had that great opportunity, as you've mentioned, often we were in the middle of that Synod process, and you were able to get around, literally, I think you got to every single deanery to get a sense of what are the local parish needs, what are the personnel needs, what are the issues that are the challenges that each of the deaneries are facing in a local area of parishes joined together? And so that really is in an important aspect, uh, a major responsibility of the regional territorial vicars precisely to work hand in hand with the deans. Yeah. To work
Speaker 2 00:06:29 Hand in hand with the deans. I was so grateful for that opportunity when I came both by the timing of it and by what Bishop DeMaio had set up this whole series of meetings. It was a great way for me to get to know the diocese, but more importantly, it set a tone. It set a tone of communication and collaboration, and I think that's what we want to be able to do now with this. So over the last few months, the deans have been working very hard working with the pastors to collaborate. One of the great public displays of that were the Corpus Christi celebrations and different deaneries had different processions and things like that, but now they're working together to see how they can cover one another, help one another along the way. And as you say, you sort of need somebody then to pull it all together. So that's where the regional vicars come in to, you know, each of them would have either five or six and would convene them on a regular basis. It's easier to connect and communicate regularly with five or sixteens than it is with 11.
Speaker 3 00:07:32 Yeah, AB absolutely. And you know, as part of your, your whole restructuring bishop, we, you know, we've also restructured the Presbyteral Council, which is an important part of this whole collaboration. As you stressed the importance of the deaneries, each one of the representatives on the Presbyteral Council is elected to be representative of two deaneries, and they bring back, and their responsibility is to attend those deanery meetings, the Presby Council elected members, and bring back that information, that local situation, so to speak, back to the Presbyteral Council. So it all kind of, you know, revolves around the importance of the deanaries and the work of the deans, and collaborating with the vicar on the, you might say, higher diocesan level, and having that tremendous input from the priest members of the Presbyteral Council. I know it's been very helpful in our discussions over the last year, as you know, you restructured the Presbyteral Council to be a more representative of the deaneries.
Speaker 3 00:08:40 Uh, we've had some good initiatives, I feel that were brought to the table and that we, we have some very good discussions about. And in some of those situations moving ahead, especially those that relate to greater collaboration, you know, between and among parishes and parish programs, we see a lot of that movement now where parishes and programs in the parishes are moving to as greater collaboration in the sense of religious education programs. You know, all the whole picture of faith formation or right of Christian initiation of adults. You know, we can do things great as parishes, but sometimes, you know, we can do them better and more efficiently if we work and collaborate together. I've seen that really happening in the last year to the benefit of so many parishes and issues as we move ahead.
Speaker 2 00:09:30 In recent years, we've had auxiliary bishops as the, the regional vicars, which is often the case when you have regional vicars. So anticipating the retirement of Bishop Teman, which was announced last week, we knew we were going to need another vicar. Bishop V told was the vicar for Queens, Bishop Teman from Brooklyn. Bishop Vito continues as a vicar, but now he'll be in Brooklyn West. And so we needed to call upon priest. In the past we had largely priest as Vicars, and we had for maybe at one point even more vicars. And as you said, as the needs got greater, we had to readjust. And so now we're at a point where I think the needs are a more local connection, that those four, so that you and I, and father heating, the moderator of the courier can meet regularly with the Vicars. The Vickers are part of the regular personnel discussions and the Presbyteral Council. So there were lots of opportunities where we're talking to each other, but then they're out in the fields talking to the deans and through the deans to the pastors. So again, collaboration and communication. Communication was a big topic during those senate sessions. So we now have four vicars. They're a little different than the ones we had before. Right. We have it divided a little differently.
Speaker 3 00:10:53 Yeah. More or less. Brooklyn, from what I recall, was separated east and west, but queens was separated north and south. So now it's east and west, both for Brooklyn and for Queens. Yes. Basically, the sizes, I believe were more or less the same. Imagine in fact, originally when the, uh, vicar structure was adapted, originally, I believe it was under Bishop Magaro for the first several years, there were five of Vicars. Then it went to four and remained at four for quite a good number of years. And then probably sometime around 2000 and maybe 10, it was split into two. It was about two years, maybe previous to mine, uh, becoming a regional territorial vicar in, um, in 2012.
Speaker 1 00:11:36 One of the things that I usually say when I'm introducing myself to priest friends or, or priests from around the country or around the world, as I say, I'm from the Diocese of Brooklyn. We're one of the top five smallest diocese is in landmass in the United States, but we're one of the largest in population. Right. And so you mentioned earlier, Monsignor, about the deans being the, the Vickers in the country, and we don't really have country here as we recognize, but there's still so much happening in each parish. So it sounds like having this localized setup will allow for you at, in the chancery and the offices, Bishop Brennan and the team to really know, uh, and have a greater pulse on, on what's going on in the different parishes, the themselves. One of the things though that happens here in New York City as we know, is that neighborhoods change frequently. And and maybe every five years, every seven years, there seems to be a turn of new migrants or new residents. How does that play a role into this new formation?
Speaker 3 00:12:36 Yeah, I think it does very much in the sense that, you know, the old adage, you know, one size doesn't fit all. I mean, as we know, in, in the city of New York, especially in Brooklyn and Queens, even with a local deanery, just a few parishes, they could be so diverse from one another, even though they may be contiguous to each other. As, you know, in Brooklyn you could drive, you know, five blocks and you know, the neighborhood is Hasidic Jews and five more blocks, and it's predominantly Hispanic. And, you know, on and on the neighborhoods, as you say, within, nevermind the deanery. But I mean, even within the no parish itself can often be so diverse. And that's why I think it, it's so important to have that local, you know, appreciation of the variety. Uh, I mean, in Brooklyn, you find, you know, everyone from the whole world in the diocese of Brooklyn was so diverse. So to encourage that, as Bishop said, that communication and collaboration and respect the diversity and the richness of our many, many varied ethnic groups that comprise many times, as I say, even even an individual parish,
Speaker 2 00:13:38 As one of the things I learned as we were going through the, uh, the different deaneries is that they faced different issues as a result. So there were some deaneries where the major concern was the demographics are shifting so much that there were very few Catholics living here because of whether it be people coming from nations that are not predominantly Christian, or I sometimes joke about the migrants coming from the suburbs, <laugh>, who are coming into some of the up and coming neighborhoods who aren't necessarily too interested in any kind of religion. So you have like some areas in the diocese where the population, or at least the attendance is shrinking severely. And then we have other areas where it's exploding, where parishes have many, many masses where people are tripping over one another. So you're right, one size doesn't fit all, and the challenges then, as a result, are very different from place to place.
Speaker 3 00:14:39 Right. And we, we've addressed, as you're saying, Bishop, many of the issues of changing demographics, you think of areas that like, you know, Brooklyn Heights and Williamsburg and, and Carol Gardens that were, you know, one time predominantly Catholic. That's not the case, you know, any longer. And what we're finding is a need to look at the local areas and more specifically the parishes. You know, what makes a parish vibrant is not just it financial vibrancy, it's also it's pastoral vibrancy what's going on in the parish. You know, could that pastoral vibrancy or financial vibrancy be enhanced, you know, by working or partnering possibly with, you know, with other parishes to make the community a stronger Catholic community. Not to diminish the community, but to strengthen the community
Speaker 1 00:15:25 And to share the good news of what's going on. I mean, sometimes we run events in our parishes. I know, uh, Bishop and I have talked about here at the co cathedral, we have the concert series and music concerts and something like that, that information should be spread or the work that's going on in many parishes all through the diocese. And, and sometimes even a neighboring parish doesn't know the good that's happening just next door. So this is a great way to collaborate, as you say, and, and to keep spreading that good news.
Speaker 3 00:15:54 And Deanaries have, have many of them have done that. They'll have like a common webpage or a booklet they put together that would list the events and the masses and liturgical services in each parish. So you don't have to necessarily duplicate things. Right? Cause as you know, as we're saying, especially in the diocese of Brooklyn, if you're late for one mass, well just walk quickly and you could get to the neighboring parish in time for them, for them mass.
Speaker 2 00:16:19 And that becomes an important issue as we have fewer priests serving in the parishes. If you have a one man place, you can't expect that they're going to be able to have an early morning mass and a Sunday evening mass. But not everybody needs to have an early morning mass. Not everybody needs to have a Sunday evening mass, but somebody needs to have an Sunday evening mass.
Speaker 3 00:16:40 Right. If there was one in the local area that cause many people working people, or even sometimes an evening mass during the week for people who work, I mean, not every, like you say, bishop, not every parish needs to have it or a Sunday evening mass, but if there could be a collaboration, we could say, Hey, look, well, we could provide, you know, a Sunday mass in this area for people who just can't get, you know, to Saturday night or, or Sunday in the morning. Exactly.
Speaker 2 00:17:05 So I was glad we talked to different people and we really prayed over this, and I think we do have a good team of vicars as you've been reading. So they're all happen to be in their area, and they all bring different gifts, whether it be, uh, father Piora has a great grasp on canon law and experience in the chancery. Father Costello has great experience in education, in seminary formation, and he really knows the priest because of that. Father Hoffman is another priest who has the respect of so many of our priests, and again, knows many priests, the strong grasp of Spanish and does a lot of ministry to the Hispanics in his parish at St. Barbara's, Bishop Vial remains the vicar for all the different ethnic groups. So each of them brings something different, but then together, those gifts come together.
Speaker 3 00:17:59 You're right, the gifts are varied, as you say. They're all well known and respected, Bishop, uh, vial and, and the priest, I think the strength they bring, Bishop, you, you mentioned, and I highlight many of them, I think one of the greatest ones too, is that they are all pastors and pastoral leaders. They have that experience. It's not just dictating from the ivory towers, <laugh>. That's right. Said they're in the trenches. They know what it means to balance a parish budget. They know what it means to work with parish personnel and, and clergy, and how to create programs in the parish that are viable and pastoral, uh, for the people. So they really have their thumb on all that, because many of them, or all of them, I should say, come with very, very strong, uh, pastoral experience. And I think that's a great, great asset to have.
Speaker 1 00:18:46 I have to say, speaking on behalf of the priests, I'm very excited for this recreation of the four of Vicars. And, you know, it's an, obviously it's a great showing of forward thinking and using these, you know, recreated vicars as a way to keep the, the pulse on the diocese and to know what are the needs as we continue to move and together and move forward, continue to grow and develop. So I'm, I'm very happy, very excited to work together.
Speaker 3 00:19:12 And, you know, we, we do face a unique challenge in that we have to recall, you know, it's not too long that we're coming, uh, we're coming off of, uh, COVID and the pandemic. Right? Then a real challenge, as you all know, and as I know firsthand as a pastor, to reinvigorate people to take more seriously the regular practice of their faith. I think statistics show we're, you know, 70% is about an average of where we are in terms of mass attendance as relates to pre previous to the pandemic. So we have some work ahead of us, and like we're planning on doing something in, in St. Bernard's to use people to reach out to people and say, you know, we will provide them with the information that come, come back. The thing would come back for Christmas. You know, that, that great. Yes. Bad by the, I think it was the archdiocese. Yeah. Practicing your faith, you know, discussion of the value or the disvalue of live streaming. So there's a lot of things that we're continuing to look at and, and discuss as far as how can we be most pastorally effective, and hopefully bring our numbers back to where they were better than they were before the pandemic.
Speaker 2 00:20:22 Precisely. This is really about growth. It means some changes, but it, it's really about trying to increase our Catholic presence and to deepen that Catholic presence particularly. And I love for the Eucharist. Monsignor, thank you for your work because you did a lot of the legwork on this, especially with the division of the Vicars and the analysis of what a vicar does, you know, relating to me as the bishop relating to the deans, relating to the priests, relating to the people in the area. So y um, I think we have some good tools and I really appreciate all of your hard work
Speaker 3 00:20:57 On that. Thank you, Bishop, my privilege,
Speaker 2 00:20:59 And thanks for being with us today.
Speaker 1 00:21:01 Bishop, perhaps you'd like to end with the prayer.
Speaker 2 00:21:05 Why don't we ask God's blessing upon us, especially in these days of summer? The Lord be with you. I'm with your spirit. May the Lord bless you and keep you. Amen. May his face shine upon you and be gracious to you. Amen. May he look upon you with kindness and grant you his peace. Amen. And may mighty God bless you, the Father and the Son in the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Speaker 1 00:21:25 Amen. Thanks for joining us for another edition of this DA and podcast. We hope that you'll join us again next week. God bless.
