Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to another edition of Big City Catholics. I'm your host, Bishop Robert Brennan, bishop of Brooklyn, serving in Brooklyn and queens. And I'm glad to be with you once again. Happy Easter to all. Again, we're still in this season of Easter, the season proclaiming the resurrection of Jesus from the dead and his victory over sin and death. In that vein, why don't we begin with a prayer using that beautiful prayer, Regina Celi, with Mary's celebration of the Lord's resurrection. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Queen of heaven, rejoice. Alleluia. The Son whom you merited to bear, Alleluia, has risen. As he said, alleluia. Pray for us to God. Alleluia. Rejoice and be glad, O Virgin Mary. Alleluia. For the Lord is truly risen. Alleluia. Alleluia. Alleluia. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. As you know, this podcast really serves as an opportunity for me just to speak, maybe in a more relaxed setting, to the people of the diocese, just to talk about the things that are going on. Some of our celebrations, like we're looking forward on Saturday to our celebration of the eucharistic revival. We talk about some of the things that are going on in our parishes, and among the many movements here this week, we have a more serious topic to talk about. April is child Abuse Prevention month, and this is an opportunity for us to reflect on some of our priorities and our concerns and our response. It also is a time when this week we had the release of our agreement with the attorney general, ending a period of long investigation and our commitment to continue the work that we've been doing in child abuse prevention, outreach to survivors, and providing safe environments. I'm glad to have with me today Mary Ellen Quinn, who is the coordinator for the Office for the Protection of Children and young people, and with her, Elizabeth Harris, who is our victims assistance coordinator. Thank you both for joining us.
[00:02:21] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:02:21] Speaker C: Thank you so much.
[00:02:23] Speaker A: Mary Ellen, you've been with us for a while, but your work was primarily in safe environment.
[00:02:28] Speaker B: Yes. So I'm coming into my 15th year in diocesan administration. I worked for the diocese over 30 years in different capacities, but in the safe environment office, I was the coordinator, and I ran that office where we did training for adults and children. We have our virtus program and then our child lors prevention program for the children.
[00:02:49] Speaker A: And many of the people who listen to this podcast are somewhat familiar and probably have taken part in these training programs over the years because we expect that all those who are employees, but also all those who are volunteers take part in this safe environment, awareness through the virtues programs, through the background checks, through the ongoing education. So a lot of our listeners are very, very familiar. Exactly.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: And we've been doing it since 2003. So people have taken it and then taken it again.
[00:03:22] Speaker A: Yes. And, you know, I have to say thank you to all those people who really have stepped forward, because this is a shared commitment and people have taken it very, very seriously. And as you've been working with us, you see that our people have become accustomed to taking it very seriously.
[00:03:39] Speaker B: They have. It's become part of our culture that this is necessary. And it's interesting because we've had updated programs through the years, and people who have taken it earlier and now had to retake it are really appreciative of how it's been updated and how pertinent it is to now. You know, technology has changed over the years, and the new programs reflect that. And it's nice for parents to be able to go somewhere where they can see, yeah, my kids shouldn't be doing this online. So it's nice. It's really good information for everyone.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: Very good. And I've asked you to take on some greater responsibilities.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. So now I am the director of the office. I have to oversee safe environment, but I also oversee victims assistance and manage all of our audits. We're audited every year by the USCCB. So it's. It's really a great responsibility, but I'm happy to do it. It's important work, and we're keeping children safe.
[00:04:32] Speaker A: Exactly. A great priority. One of the gifts you brought to us is when you talk about victims assistance, you brought us Elizabeth Harris, who comes with a wealth of experience from the New York City Police Department. Welcome, Elizabeth.
[00:04:46] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:04:47] Speaker A: And tell us about the background that you bring to this office.
[00:04:50] Speaker C: Sure. So while I haven't been here quite as long as Mary Ellen has, it's been about a year and a half for me here in the victims assistance ministry. I'm newer to the diocese, but not new to the work of victims assistants. Prior to joining the diocese, I was a New York City police detective with the Manhattan Child Abuse Squad, which was part of the special Victims division of NYPD. So I spent many, many years investigating cases of child abuse, physical and sexual, against children and young adults. So I'm very familiar with the needs of the children that stand up and tell their story and look for the justice and the healing. So I'm so happy that I'm able to be a part of that here in the diocese now.
[00:05:33] Speaker A: And you help us all, really, to be aware of the great pain that it does cause, and that stays with people. Thank you for the work that you do. Now in terms of our outreach of walking with survivors every year, we have the mass for hope and healing. There are many different things that your office provides.
[00:05:52] Speaker C: So, yes, our office provides. What we hope is some healing and solidarity to the survivors that stand up and tell us their stories. We work with a survivors advisory group who told their stories many years ago but still want to remain a part of the church and want to feel connected to it. And they come to us and help us with the planning of our massive hope and healing, with the effort to reach out to others who might want to come and tell us their stories. We know that there are people out there who maybe haven't been able to do that yet, but we want to put out the word that we are here for them should they want to tell the story. And we have other survivors here that can help them and walk with them at the time that they might need to come forward.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: Well, thank you both for the incredible work that you do and the important work that you do. Many of you would have heard in the news or in the paper that we reached our agreement with the attorney general. So this was something that began before I came here, and it took the attention of a lot of people, Bishop DiMAsio and the team that's been working here, that has been working here before me. I have to say I'm incredibly grateful to all of those who've contributed to this work because it was a lot of work to respond to the investigation of the attorney general in 2009. In 2018, a subpoena was issued for each of the eight diocese. While we say in the agreement that we don't quite agree with or admit to all of their findings, we also thought that it was important for us to come to an agreement so that we could move forward. That's what we wanted to do. And again, that preceded me, and I'm so grateful that much of that work was done even before I got here. So we went to the negotiation table and we came to an agreement on things. So out in the public is some of the points that we've agreed upon. So we were glad to make many of the commitments that are in the agreement because, first of all, we're already doing many of these commitments. We've undertaken them. We've been doing them for years. Other ones we've considered doing ourselves. And then the third class is a group of commitments that we've made to building up the staff of the office and working on communications, both internally and externally. You know, when the Dallas charter was established in 2002, many diocese, like our own, were trying to build something and respond to many people coming forward at one time and really didn't have a model to look upon. We were building it as we went along, and we learned from experience. And we continue to learn from experience. Right, exactly. Every day, we also see developments in technology that create, on the one hand, some very concerning new needs. The world of technology has changed. It has some terrible dangers, but also the world of technology has developed and gives us new tools to be able to do some of our safe environment programs and things like that.
[00:08:59] Speaker B: Exactly. But navigating electronics as a family is very difficult. So any assistance we can give the families. And when I first started, not every family had a computer in their home. Now every child has one on their hand. It's a totally different world. And navigating that for us and for the parents has been difficult, but we helped them. We've changed policies because of the technology, and we're trying to move forward to keep up with it. And we do, and that's why it's great to review our policies so that we can change as things move along.
[00:09:30] Speaker C: And we do a lot of education with the school kids and the diocese, those who attend our catholic schools, as well as those who attend the religious education program. We come out and we talk to the children about these dangers with technology, phones, social media, all the different platforms that are so very tempting for kids, but they don't know how to navigate them. So we come out and we talk to the kids about that, how to do that, how to keep them safe. And we speak to the parents as well, and let them know you can, you know, look through your children's phones. That's a way of keeping your kids safe, and we'll walk you through how to do that.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: I remember being at a meeting and a parent saying, oh, I couldn't possibly look at my child's phone. That's not right. That's their privacy. And I asked them, who pays for the phone? I said, it's your phone.
[00:10:17] Speaker A: That's right. For us, we want to provide a safe environment, so we use the virtu training sessions the child was, and the background checks also, though, things do go wrong. So we wanted to give people a way not only to report, because we also insisted that people report. We insist that those who work for us, those who are volunteers, report anything that appears like any kind of abuse. And we tried to set up a way of making that easy, but also accountable so that there is follow up that we do keep track. So tell us about our online reporting system.
[00:10:53] Speaker B: Our reporting system right now is an 800 number that anyone can call to make a report. And it's answered by a lawyer. And he makes that report and sends it to the corresponding DA in either Brooklyn or Queens, wherever the incident has occurred. And we started that when in 2003. And we were one of the first in the country to have that. So to enhance that now. And this is part of the agreement with the attorney general, we are going to have an online version of that. So there'll be a portal on our website where if anyone wants to report something in addition to the phone number, they can also go online and report it. And in addition to that, we're also adapting a whistleblower policy. And the whistleblower policy will protect someone who's making a report so that no one can ever retaliate against them for making a report and doing the right thing.
[00:11:43] Speaker C: And along with that, each time a report has come in, as Mary Ellen said, it goes to the corresponding district attorney in either county. With my working knowledge from investigations, I then reach out to the das to confer with them to find out if they will be going forward with a case of this report. Sometimes these cases reach their statute of limitations, so there cannot be a criminal investigation conducted. However, an investigation is conducted here in our diocese to see what we can find out and what we can do. And ultimately, how can we help that person who's making that report?
[00:12:16] Speaker A: And that's important because we don't want to meddle in police investigation. But when we get the green light, we want to make sure that we follow up on all of that.
[00:12:26] Speaker B: Part of the new agreement is also that we have timelines now on those investigations so they are done in a timely fashion so we can get to.
[00:12:34] Speaker A: The bottom of things along those lines. We talked about a monitor. And I know, again, this was before I came, the diocese actually proposed a monitor. There are diocese that I've heard of that have a third party compliance person, somebody independent of the diocese who comes in and oversees things, gives some feedback and helps to keep those dioceses accountable. And so that's something that we said, this is good for us. We want people to have the confidence that we're doing well. We pledge to do. We also have nothing to hide. And finally, yes, sometimes an outside, objective voice can give us some ideas, because we're always looking to improve. So that was proposed, it was agreed upon. And so that's going to be our next test. To agree to the appropriate person to do that work.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: Yes, we welcome the monitor. Additional oversight is always good. And to review policies is always good. Another set of eyes to hear another.
[00:13:32] Speaker C: Angle on how to approach something is always helpful.
[00:13:36] Speaker A: And you mentioned before, part of your responsibility is dealing with the audits from the USCCB. So we have the Dallas charter. So we have annual audits.
[00:13:44] Speaker B: Yes, we have annual audits that we submit to every year and every third year. It's an onsite audit. And we've been doing those audits since 2003. We've been successful for the most part with them. They do, every once in a while, ask us to enhance something which we comply with. We are used to having oversight, but more oversight is always good. The USCCB has, over the last few years, put out a program for highly reliable organizations where you constantly review your policies. So that if there is an incident, and hospitals do this as well, if there's an incident, you look at it and you see where you can do better and change your policies. So using highly reliable organizations, a monitor, all these items are excellent to just strengthen our processes and to keep children safe.
[00:14:32] Speaker A: We also talked about improving communication. So we as a team, meet weekly or bi weekly, really just to make sure we're staying on top of things. And it brings all the different people together with the different competencies, so that we're helping to keep each other somewhat accountable, keeping the work flow and really the communication, so that one person doesn't have something that the others don't know. And sometimes we catch things for each other. But we also wanted to improve our communication with the outside world. And that's something that developed over time. In the early days after the charter, we were trying to build it as we go along. As I said before, between 2002, 2005, 121 allegations of abuse were reported. Most of them from years and years before. People found the courage, their voice to the voice. They found the voice because those who came forward gave that assistance to many people. So a lot of work was done in the early days, really just to respond, to get those who were perpetrators off the job, and to be able to build again all of these other structures. So we have an intervention team that when something's being announced, responds.
[00:15:43] Speaker B: Yes. So we have a healing intervention team that works with our office that when there is an issue, an announcement that goes out that there are people who can go to the church and speak to the faithful about what's going on, about what's happened and listen to them. Really, it's not really so much to tell them, it's to listen to them and their concerns. And then we come back and we talk about those concerns and see how we can change things again or react to those things so that we can make a difference and make a change. But it's very important that people feel that they're being heard. And we can only strengthen our church by listening to our faithful.
[00:16:21] Speaker C: We learn and we recognize that it's difficult for our faithful to hear this about someone who is being removed. That's a very difficult thing for them to understand and grasp and sometimes comes to terms with. So we're there just to hear them validate their feelings and answer their questions about what's next and what should I do and what should I look for. And we're there for them to hopefully help guide them along.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: Thank you for that work. Something that's very important. And then we talk about communications more broadly, more publicly. And we're glad we have the tablet so that we can communicate and to sales media that we can communicate with our folks. And we've been issuing press releases for many, many years now. And so we're glad. That's another commitment we're glad to make. It's been part of our life, part of our response as these things occur. And in fact, on this, I would encourage you to take a look at the tablet this coming week. There's the online story already there, but in the print edition coming out next week, you'll get to see some of the releases that have been made over the course of time, some of our history, some of our response. That's really very, very important to take note of. Again, I can't say this enough. I can't say enough. Thank you. Thanks to all of you who work on this terribly difficult issue, but very, very important that we respond to the scourge of child abuse or really of sexual abuse of any kind. Thanks to all of those who came before me, those who've worked on this over the years, who built it up, those who worked with the attorney general beforehand. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And thanks to all of our people who work in communications. Again, with the robust communications team at Desales, we're able to communicate pretty effectively. And the record is there so you can look at what we try to do. And finally, I want to say thanks to our priests, our deacons, our many pastoral ministers who have taken this issue very, very seriously. This is a very difficult issue for a lot of people who work in the church, for all of us who work in the church. It's sad to see what has happened. It's sad to see the effect that it has on people. But we're also in an environment that's a very difficult environment. This has caused great pain and concern and extra sacrifice for all the people who minister here, especially for the faithful who stepped up, as I said before, to do the training, to do the awareness so that we're all, our eyes and our ears are now better focused. We see the signs of, hey, something's not right over here. And how do you respond to that? Something's not right. Thanks to those who've been certified, recertified, do the ongoing training.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: So we need to thank our parish people who are on the ground, but also our priests who really support us, the pastors and parochial vicars who are really in the trenches. They are the people. They are the face that people see every week. Their lives have changed drastically due to the crisis. I remember in 2001, we relied so much on our priests to get through the terrible tragedy of 911. And not soon after that, in 2002, the crisis erupted in the church. And it was an awful time. And people turned their back on their priests because they were afraid. And these priests, their priesthoods changed forever. This is not what they thought they were getting into. But they're still with us. They're strong. And we thank them for that strength and for giving us that strength.
[00:20:00] Speaker C: And we thank them, too, for hearing what we say about the education and the prevention. And we love when they reach out and give us a call when they have an issue at their church or somebody has come to them and they're not sure, and they're looking for guidance. And we let them know they can call us any hour of the day to say, you know, how can I best help them? Sometimes it's directing them to our reporting line, that 1800 number. Sometimes it's for myself to reach out to that person directly. But we really thank our priests that they hear us and how important this is. And we recognize that they, too, want to keep their faithful safe and the children safe.
[00:20:41] Speaker A: You're so right that this has changed so much and caused such great pain and maybe even fear. You look at the way people are looking at you. One of the things that I think we recognize is that a lot of the work that you're doing with safe environment is we're providing an atmosphere that's more out in the open. Just things that were taken for granted that you might do in the past gave cover to those who were doing very bad things. And so now some of the practices that we've undertaken since the Dallas charter, other adults around when we're working with young people, having a code of conduct and observing that code of conduct, those boundary issues and the training for the boundary issues, those, please, God, will help us and even help protect not only the priest, but all pastoral ministers, because our goal is to live life out in the open with other adults and observing the professional guidelines. You can see, too, it sometimes changes the relationship with the bishops and the priests. We have to listen, we have to pay attention to a lot of the different components here, and I'm sorry for that. I'm troubled by the way that it puts a little bit of a wedge. That's something I pray about all the time. But I do deeply appreciate the work that so many good priests are doing. And hopefully, as we continue to improve the ways we're operating already, we see a sharp decline in the number of occurrences. Hopefully, even the things that we're doing that can be somewhat burdensome are, in the long run, helps and assistance to those who are serving, priests, teachers, catechists, youth ministers, to all of us. Hopefully these things, like I said, they're a little bit burdensome, but hopefully they not only create, which is a high priority, that safe environment for young people, but a healthy environment where we can minister to children and to young people. That's what we're really all about, to bring the gospel of Jesus, to bring the healing of Jesus, to bring the witness of his victory over sin and death to the people we encounter. So thank you for giving me that opportunity. Mary Ellen, thanks for raising that issue about the priest particularly. And we continue to pray, as the acts of the apostles say, one in heart mind trying to work together for this and for so many other things.
[00:23:10] Speaker B: Bishop, thank you for your support, because we couldn't do what we do without your support because of dioceses that are so spread out. Next week we'll go into the conference for Child and Youth Protection, and it's a national conference that safe environment coordinators and victims assistance coordinators go to. You know, sometimes we hear that, you know, they're not always able to meet with their bishops, and, you know, we meet with you weekly, and, you know, we're all on the same page. We have that communication open. So thank you.
[00:23:40] Speaker A: We're meeting together. It's more than meeting. We're working together.
[00:23:43] Speaker C: It sounds like a working.
[00:23:45] Speaker A: Right. We're working.
[00:23:46] Speaker C: I know for myself I'm so grateful to be part of a team that I know I can rely on the people sitting around that room and that I can easily come to you, Bishop, if I need to raise an issue or have a question, that you're so approachable and it's so helpful.
[00:24:01] Speaker A: So thank you all for joining us for this week's edition of Big City Catholics. Once again, I'm going to ask you to watch for next week's version of the tablet. You can go right now to the online version, but the report was issued on the day after the publishing deadline for this week's tablet. So please take a look at that, and hopefully that gives a good context to the work that so many good people, people like you, are doing. And again, please pray for us tomorrow as we gather for our eucharistic revival and look forward to the national eucharistic revival. We pray that these days of Easter are for you and your family a moment of grace, knowing the presence of Jesus who lives and who promises to give us eternal life. Mary Ellen and Elizabeth, thank you for joining us on this week's edition of Big City Catholics to discuss this important topic. God bless you in your work, and God bless you in taking an interest in our podcast. I know that you're listeners to this podcast as well, so you stay on top of it all. God bless you all. Have a wonderful week. The Lord be with you and with your spirit. May the blessing of almighty God, the Father and the son and the holy spirit come upon you and your families and remain with you forever and ever. Amen.
[00:25:15] Speaker C: Amen. Thank you.
[00:25:17] Speaker B: Thank you.
