Episode 45 - "I Am The Way, The Truth, And The Life"

Speaker 1 00:00:09 Welcome back to another edition of Big City Catholics. I'm Deacon Kevin McCormick. I'm the superintendent of schools in the Brooklyn Diocese, and I'm here with Bishop Robert Brennan. I'm replacing Father Chris this week. He's in a communication workshop in Rome and uh, we can't wait for him to get back, but I'm glad he is not here cuz I love to do this Speaker 2 00:00:27 And I'm glad you're here with me again. Always glad to have Father Chris, but I'm very glad I always enjoy talking with you, Kevin. Speaker 1 00:00:34 You're very kind. You're very kind. Let's start with a prayer, as we always do. Uh, we're always in the presence of our God. In the name of the Father of the Son, the Holy Spirit. Amen. Lord God, so much is on our plate. So much needs to be done. So much needs to be said and heard, but there's so much that confuses us as well. Our prayer today, Lord, is that we hold on to what's truly important and to let us let go of those things that are not in our blessed mothers. Intercession we pray. Speaker 2 00:00:59 Amen. Amen. It. It's good to catch up with you. Uh, deacon Kevin. We were together this just this last week. In fact, Speaker 1 00:01:06 We went to Nazareth High School, which is maybe one of our best kept secrets in the diocese. Principal Robert DeRay and the kids and his faculty is staff, is campus minister. What a tremendous experience it was being with them. And if I may say so, you were on fire in your homily and, and I I've had the opportunity to hear you preach for years. For years and you're good. But you were on fire last week. Speaker 2 00:01:29 There was something being there that I responded to one of the, uh, fellas before mass. He says, are you preaching today? And I said, yeah, I have <laugh>. And I, I think he meant something different. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> by how you're preaching than are you just doing the homily? I think he, he laid out some expectations Speaker 1 00:01:46 And you, you met them. You met them. And it was dramatic. I liked it because we spoke about deacons and, which I'm always a, a big fan of. But it was also weighing a bring a community that might be easily forgotten. They're in a small school, they're less than 400 right now, but they're growing. They're, every year they're growing certainly under Rob's leadership. And they're doing some great, great things there. And what I love about it is it's focused on the kids. It's the kids. It's the kids, it's the kids. And it's not the jock. It's not the academic. It's all of them. Here comes everybody. I think that's gonna be a theme of today. Speaker 2 00:02:18 I think so. And you know, I call it a hidden gem. And the reason I say that is for me, it's not a place I knew. Well, I had heard about it, I knew it was small. I didn't know really what to expect. Some of our other schools, even before I came to Brooklyn, when I was living on the island, I knew, I knew Zarian. I know St. Francis Prep, I know Cathedral, I know a lot of them, but I really didn't know Nazareth. Like you say, it's small, but there's something very, very powerful. We had a chance to sit with some of the kids, a representative group of the kids at lunch. And I think that's one of the things they enjoyed, that it, that it is small and that they could interact with each other. And I think it's just a great place where young people can discover and reach their potential. Speaker 1 00:03:01 We, at the lunch, we were in a big square and there maybe with 30 kids there. And in the big form it was very aw. It was stayed, it was like, you know, it was a look, but then like after the meal, you went clockwise. I went counterclockwise and we, we sat with little groups of kids and made our way around. That was the best part of the trip. It Speaker 2 00:03:18 Really was. And it is funny, those young people were very chatty and had some interesting questions and good questions. The other thing is, they come from all over Speaker 1 00:03:28 Exactly. Speaker 2 00:03:28 To go to that school. There were kids, I think there were kids from New Jersey. Yep, Speaker 1 00:03:32 Yep, yep. Speaker 2 00:03:33 So they crossed two rivers to get there and then others from out on the island. Speaker 1 00:03:36 Yep. It's amazing. It's there. It's a real exciting place. I swapped a few recipes, my curry goat recipe that I'm gonna bring home. I'm very excited about that. Three different recipes for peril and gons and, uh, aroso. Um, I'm very excited about that. So <laugh>, I'll let you know how that goes. Speaker 2 00:03:52 <laugh>, you know, I had, um, another visit during the week. It was sort of a last minute thing, but it was senior night for Lockton High School for their baseball season. Speaker 1 00:04:01 Another great school that's our oldest. Speaker 2 00:04:02 Yeah. And it's named after our founding bishop. They had their senior night, and it was somebody from Cathedral Prep who had mentioned it to me that they were playing down at Park where the Brooklyn Cyclones play. And so that was a real, uh, treat for them to be able to play on a minor league, bar park. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, field. And so I got down there. I had, was able to spend some time with each of the, uh, cheering sections. Same thing I got to know. I'd been to Lockland a couple of times, but I got to know some of the parents now and just what a great commitment and great love at Cathedral. I know some of those fellows already because of the school visits there. It was just great being at Moham. He, and you know what struck me? Both teams, they were really great sports. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they really were. They just, if you don't mind my saying, they were gentlemen, real gentlemen, that's Speaker 1 00:04:56 Something we're very proud of in our schools. And 99 out of a hundred times, that's exactly how they treat each other. How they work on the field, on the court. They're rough. But then afterwards, there's a handshake, there's an understanding and there's another day. What's interesting is when you see these guys years later, decades later, and they remember like the bruises they got under the basket or, or, or on the, the gridiron or in the ball field, and now they're, they're sharing a, a beverage and they're telling their stories. It all comes full circle. That's one of the beauties of Catholic education is the echo that goes. It's not just the eight years in grammar school now it's 11 years in grammar school, or four years in high school or, or four years in colleges, or four, six years in colleges. But it echoes out. Speaker 2 00:05:34 It echoes out. So it was a fun week being around the, uh, schools. And right now I'm in confirmation seasons. So Speaker 1 00:05:42 What is that like? So when we see confirmations, we see one, maybe two in the parish. So we are blessed with many great bishops here at New York Auxiliaries that, that work with you. We have our retired Bishop, Bishop demario, but we also have <laugh> a hundred and something parishes. So we understand the ceremony. I get it. And the, the sacrament and the importance of it. But I'm looking at like the day by day. Like how do you guys do that? Speaker 2 00:06:03 It's, for me, it's actually more energizing than it is draining. So it's a parish visit, and to me it's about a number of encounters. It's encountering the kids, encountering the parents. Here in Brooklyn and in Queens, our confirmations tend to be smaller than what I remember from being on Long Island. So, you know, in Assau Suffolk we have fewer parishes, but about the same number of people. So everything is big on the island. So you, you mentioned multiple sessions. You, it would not be, it would be more common than not to have two or even three sessions in a day when you had confirmation on Long Island, you were booked for the day mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Here we have many more parishes and in some cases we have to combine them, but they tend to be small. So I know there are even larger, but 50 is kind of, wow. Speaker 2 00:06:54 That's a, that's a big confirmation. No, we have larger ones. We have some that are up over a hundred, um, but they tend to be a little smaller and that lends a different kind of dynamic. So I enjoy getting there ahead of time and meeting with the young people. Those to be confirmed. And when it's a smaller group, you can spend a little bit more time in a conversation. I learned a long time ago, they'll never remember what the bishop said, but they might remember that they said something to the bishop. And it really is just getting to know them. What are their interests? Where they go to school, what kinds of things they do for fun? What are they interested in school, why they chose their confirmation saint. Now sometimes I'll raise the question and you get a short version of their confirmation saint report, but sometimes it's a very personal reason. Sometimes it's because of a connection with the saint. Sometimes it's a family devotion. It's always, always fascinating. And I tell them, and it's true, I tell them, I find that I pray better when we're in the church because I sense some kind of a connection than had I just walked in and met them cold right there. And then the other thing is I'm hoping they might look at me at that point and say, okay, he, he's not so bad. Right, right. Speaker 1 00:08:09 We, I had the, the pleasure of being with you at, at visitations confirmation about a month ago, I guess. And there were three main events for the kids from my perspective. One was when you sat with them, you went to the small groups, which we saw you do at Nazareth, then that's, that's one of your, your strengths. You know, sit there in an intimate group and kind of take away the awesomeness of being the ordinary. And, and you do that well then obviously the sacrament itself, the anointing, the intimacy of that, the shaking of the hand. But then, and this is not in the right, but the taking of the pictures, which can be endless, but they are so excited to be with, with Bishop Brennan. It's, so, it's called, well, again, Speaker 2 00:08:43 It's another moment of encounter. That's how I see it. I tease, I say really, there are three parts now to the Eucharist, liturgy of the word, the liturgy of the Eucharist and the liturgy of the photograph. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But, um, it's less about the photos. It really is just a moment, again, to speak to somebody, call them by name sometimes to make a connection, to meet their parents, their sponsor. It's all a matter of seconds. It's, it's not like you have this, but for them it's Speaker 1 00:09:11 Not Speaker 2 00:09:11 Deep, but it's an encounter. Right, right. It's not like you have a deep conversation, but it is an encounter. Sometimes I remember their name or I see their name, but sometimes I have to ask their name a third time. Yeah, yeah. But it's just that connection individual. Speaker 1 00:09:24 Now, will you allow me to pivot on that? So we have that experience and, and we'll have, in the case of visitation was a pretty intimate number, but it can be much larger than other places. People come to you and to kind of play off the James Joyce thing, here comes everybody, and, and you have those who are devout, those who follow you. They know everything. They listen to this podcast. They're there others that have no clue who you are. They've just come in. This may be their first, uh, liturgical events since the last funeral or the last wedding. And yet they all have a place at the table. I wonder sometimes in the acts of the apostles, we find that there are numerous types of Christians, numerous guys, and they don't like each other and they fight with each other. And I'm the real Christian. I follow this one, or I follow that one. I sent to a meme year, a year ago, and it was like, St. Paul says, what are you thinking? Knock it off, keep praying. And Timothy says, hello <laugh>. You know? Speaker 2 00:10:14 That's right. Speaker 1 00:10:15 But, but like, how big is our tent? Speaker 2 00:10:18 Well, it's in the name itself, the word Catholic. Catholic means universal Catholic means we all fit. What is important though is that we focus on Christ and on his teaching. I, I often talk about like the beauty of diversity here. We need to be diverse and, and we are diverse. We don't Speaker 1 00:10:38 Have a choice in Speaker 2 00:10:39 Brooklyn. We don't have a choice. The beauty of diversity, that's one of our great gifts, but it's the unity of diversity. It's that all of us are coming together to encounter Jesus Christ and to share the gospel of Jesus Christ. So we are united in a communion. We are united in the Eucharist and with one another. So, you know, like St. Paul would say, for example, there are times when you have to say, wait a minute, either you're in or you're not in you. Right. Speaker 1 00:11:09 It's not just a good guy club. It's not just a good ground club. Like there's more to this than just being a nice person. Speaker 2 00:11:14 Yeah. I actually, there was one fellow who used to say, you know, there's the him all or welcome. So it's true all or welcome, but it's not anything goes. Right. Speaker 1 00:11:22 Right. And I think that's an important distinction. Speaker 2 00:11:24 Yeah. The unity isn't necessarily in our language. We're in our style or in our background. And that goes back to the very early days. I love reading the acts of the apostles during Easter. I love reading the acts of apostles, but isn't it great to see how they were dealing with many things we are dealing with in those very early days? And thank God they did, because they gave us a little bit of a blueprint on how to manage Speaker 1 00:11:52 The importance of patience, the importance of, of holding true. And again, I, it goes back to, you know, one of the things you, you say all the times is we need to be bold in what we say. We need to be unapologetic in what we hold onto. But we also need to be joyful. And with joyful comes a humility and invitation to say, come and see. I recently, Gina and I got five days we disappeared down into, uh, the Caribbean went to St. Martin's with some friends, and we had some great people there. And there were people who in the past that had been very much involved and they drifted away for whatever reason. I, you know, I'm not here to judge them, but a couple of people kind of insinuated like, what do you know that I don't know. Like, what did I forget? What did we forget to talk to them about? I still think there's an insatiable hunger out there that the sound inferior of our world does not address. But we do in the breaking of the bread, in the forgiving of sins, in the celebration of the Holy Spirit. That we do that. And we have to still invite and not be afraid to say, come and see. Speaker 2 00:12:47 Exactly. Exactly. I think there are a lot of, um, elements to it. We need to invite, we need to speak boldly, but we need to listen deeply. And when I speak about being bold, you know, I'm going back to a concept in the acts of the apostles, is that Greek word peria. I learned it from Bishop Penning who is, uh, now the bishop in Providence. But I learned it from him. That word parak, it means boldness in, I, I don't know any Greek. I really, I grew up in a time when I just, I never had an opportunity to study. You see, I didn't go to the college seminary. I went to St. John's. You ended up Right. And I guess so, so I rely on smarter people than I am who, who've teach me along the way in some of these things. So I didn't know any Greek, but I know that word Perez, it's boldness. But you know, you can be bold and obnoxious. It's, the boldness is about the encounter with Jesus Christ. A Speaker 1 00:13:38 Confidence, maybe Speaker 2 00:13:39 Confidence. I, and I think I said this at Nazareth, it's from this indisputable event that you just can't deny that it's true. This morning it was pouring rain. I went outside, I got wet. And so I can tell you with absolute confidence, boldly that it rained this morning, but boldness isn't about our opinion. And I think that's where we get mixed up. Right. Right, right. And that's where you get kind of obnoxious or volume or a volume. I only like these kinds of hymns. I I only like the music to be contemporary. I only like the music to be chant. I only like this or I only like that. I think, and that's where I think you get into that Catholic, the bigger tent, it's not about opinion. It, it is about being faithful to the ritual. We don't do our own thing. The liturgy doesn't belong to us. Bishop Speaker 1 00:14:28 Murphy. It's what Bishop Murphy said. Do the red read the black. Speaker 2 00:14:32 That's it. And what Deacon McCormick is talking about is in now a missile. The words that we use are in black, but there's something called rubrics, the red print that tells you, put your hands this way or go. Right, exactly. Sit down, <laugh> sit down and be quiet. No, it doesn't say that. <laugh> Speaker 1 00:14:49 Bishop Murphy told me that a few times, but, but that's beside the board. Speaker 2 00:14:51 <laugh>, actually, I take that back. It does say, sit down and be quiet. It talks about reverential silence. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that's built in right. To literature. But anyway, there are certain things about us, and some of it comes from intergenerational living. There's an attraction sometimes to being around people, whether it be in our own age group or our own way of thinking. And some, sometimes we can get caught up in that kind of thinking. But we've lost that sense of intergenerational living. If you can think of times when people grew up with their grandparents, either in the house or right around the corner, your parents, you and then maybe like little kids. And you have to experience what everybody else is experiencing. And you need, in order to survive, you need to be able to listen to one another. And you discovered that there's a great deal of wisdom that we can learn from one another. And I think part of what you were experiencing when you were away is that, you know, people kind of feel left behind that maybe, like you say, they were involved at one point and they sort of like, well, what happened to everything that I experienced? Right, right. Things are changing so radically. Speaker 1 00:16:01 And I guess I have to change too. You know, as you say, we're met of a certain age. The fact that we got this far, there is wisdom that comes with that. And the perception that you, you have and you realize that the world that we grew up in in the seventies doesn't exist. It's done. But the world we live in, in, in the early twenties, some great things going on here, some tremendous things. And when we visit schools, when you work with the, your elderly priests, when you work with your brand new seminarians, when we deal with all those generations and you realize they're all the lords. It's not just, just as my group. It's, and it's not just the, you know, Irish Catholics, it's the Latinos and it's the African-Americans, and it's the Eastern Europeans. Speaker 2 00:16:37 And it's the Africans not just Yeah, that's right. Well said. Cause we are, that's one of the blessings here in, in Brooklyn, Queens. We meet people from all over the world. Speaker 1 00:16:44 Here comes, everybody comes, everybody here comes everybody. Yeah. So exciting times. So if you don't mind, can we just talk, talk about this week's gospel? Speaker 2 00:16:53 Oh, I'd love to. Speaker 1 00:16:54 I love Thomas <laugh>. I love Thomas. For those who know me, I, Thomas and I have one thing in common. We think out loud <laugh>, we say things that other people are like, oh my God, I can't believe he just said that. And in this week's gospel, Jesus is going on, on this tremendously wonderful, uh, uh, idea of he is the man. He, everything is coming through him. I'm the way. And Thomas, we don't know the way, we don't know where we're going. Like, you gotta help us with this one. And Jesus always patient with him. Speaker 2 00:17:20 He really is. You're right. I always say, Thomas asked the question that everybody else is thinking, but no one has the courage to say it except Thomas. So Thomas asked the question that everybody else was wondering. And for us from 2000 years later, thank God he asked those questions, because those questions gave us an insight into Jesus. Speaker 1 00:17:39 And John's gospel can be a little opaque for some. So I like the, I like the side notes that the apostles offer us, particularly Thomas. That's Speaker 2 00:17:46 Right. This is on the night before Jesus died. This is at the Last Supper. The world is going to collapse tomorrow. Do not let your hearts be troubled. Speaker 1 00:17:54 All is well. All is well. Speaker 2 00:17:56 But it's not well because it's going to be easy. It's well because he's going to be with us. He says, I'm going where I'm going. You can't come, but I will come and I will take you back with me. I'll call you to myself. And that's when you know, Thomas says, we don't know where you're going. How are you gonna follow you? And Jesus says, I am the way. What a great line I am. The way I'm, I'm not just the destination. I'm the destination, but I'm the way the process, I'm the way you're gonna get there. No one can get there through except through me. I'm the way, the truth and the life. Thank you Thomas, for asking that question. The others all have like a, these one line questions. So we also hear from Philip, uh, you know, show us the Father. That'll be enough. Speaker 2 00:18:37 A and I also love Jude in there. Somewhere in there. Jude says, Jesus, why don't you just tell everybody who you are? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, why don't you just show yourself to the world? And essentially Jesus answers him with a non-answer to the question, which really is an answer. He says, Philip, if you love me, then the Father and I will send you the Holy Spirit. It's like, whoa, wait, wait a minute. Is that yes or no? Well, it means you need to have the eyes of love to recognize me. It's not just a matter of, you know, sh show and tell. It's a matter of a relationship. It's a matter of entering into a friendship. And Speaker 1 00:19:14 I think Bishop, that's the key because love changes you. When you're in love with a person. When you're in love with a, a friend, a marriage or, or a child or whatever the case is, you become vulnerable. And in a sense, I think of Jesus' vulnerability, which is something people don't want to hear. Cause he's the great king and truly he is. In, in about five weeks, we'll have, you know, Christ the King and celebrate that. But at the same time, he's willing to be hurt to die for us. That's love. That's it. Speaker 2 00:19:40 You know, they say love is blind. That's a lie. Speaker 1 00:19:43 Unbelievably. So Speaker 2 00:19:44 That's a lie. Basically, love has the clearest vision and embraces everything about the person. Speaker 1 00:19:51 When you see a Nona or Aue or a grandmother, there's a lot of wrinkles. You know, except for my wife, there's no wrinkles on my wife. Just for the record, she's a brand new, uh, Nona. But they've earned the gray, the marks of age are in the case of, of a grandparent case, of an elder case of a, a great priest. These are marks of, of love and that scars of grace, if you will. Speaker 2 00:20:10 Isn't it beautiful? Yeah. You know, we, we celebrating Mother's Day, next month, father's Day. And people remember their parents, but they also tend to remember their grandparents and exactly. We Speaker 1 00:20:21 And the surrogates. How many surrogates, how many of our priests and sisters and brothers were surrogates to so many children along the way? So yes. I mean that, I, I think there's are several themes here. We've done the experience of, of visiting the school and seeing wonders. Then we, we begin to see the diversity of that. We see the, the call of the, the attraction of the sacraments and many different levels. There are some who, who could quote the catechism. And there are those who just got dressed up for the day. And it all comes back to God calling us, saying, I am the way, the truth and the life. I am the Father. When you see me, you see the Father. Now let's get busy. Speaker 2 00:20:56 There's the unity, the thread that pulls it all together. Well, it's been a, a great week, a great chance to catch up a little bit and, uh, let's spend the time enjoy, uh, same here. And really enjoy some of the great blessings that allow us here in the, in this ministry here in Brooklyn and Queens. Speaker 1 00:21:13 Wow. A renaissance of faith is brewing right now. If we were gonna sell stock in the future, this would be the time to buy. Because we are about to do things in Brooklyn that are gonna make the ears of those who hear it ring. I promise you. Speaker 2 00:21:25 <laugh>. That's great. That's great. You know, we were talking before about confirmation. I'll wrap up on this. I had a bunch of them, but I was at a Lady of Grace on, uh, Sunday. Do you remember that rain? Yeah. Oh, wow, Speaker 2 00:21:37 Man. Oh, four kids. Oh. Oh. Well, we got out when we finished. I said, why isn't anybody leaving the church? I, I went, took off the ves and we're walking out, carrying all our stuff, and I'm saying, all these people sitting in the back of the church are standing at the door where, why aren't they going home? Why aren't they going? It was pouring, it was brutal. It was brutal. People, we were kind of stuck right there at the door. But, uh, those are some of the, the fun things that make life interesting. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Deacon Kevin, it was great being with you today. We'll close with the prayer. So in these, uh, days of Easter, I often pray the Regina Cha, you've introduced the practice of the at Noom, which I think is a great, it's a, it's Speaker 1 00:22:18 A beautiful prayer, isn't it? Speaker 2 00:22:19 Beautiful prayer. And during Easter, traditionally, change it. Now I can see you keep it because you're looking for consistency. Speaker 1 00:22:25 Consistency is what, that's Speaker 2 00:22:27 Exactly. The bottom line is in Easter, the church gives us this beautiful prayer. And I love the image. It's like the church is saying, Hey, Mary, rejoice your son. He's alive, he's risen. Mary, we wanna rejoice with you. Um, to me, I, I think it's just such an imaginative prayer. Um, it gives us a glimpse into things that the, the gospels don't record. But imagine, uh, the church sharing Mary's joy in the name of the Father and the Son. Holy Spirit. Amen. Praise. Amen. Queen of heaven, rejoice. Hallelujah. The Son whom you merited to bear, hallelujah, has risen as he said. Hallelujah. Pray for us to God. Speaker 1 00:23:02 Hallelujah. Speaker 2 00:23:03 Rejoice and be glad over Virgin Mary. Hallelujah. For the Lord has truly risen. Hallelujah. Hallelujah and Almighty God bless you, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Speaker 1 00:23:14 Amen. Speaker 2 00:23:15 Thank you for joining us for another edition of Big City Catholic. We look forward to, uh, sharing some thoughts with you next week. God bless you.