Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:09 Welcome back to another edition of big city Catholics. Uh, our podcast here with Bishop Robert Brennan, the Bishop of the diocese of Brooklyn, myself, father, Christopher HEU today, we're joined with a special guest Monsignor John string. Kowski a priest of the diocese of Brooklyn, a very well respected priest at that. And former rector of St. James cathedral, Basilica, which is the topic really of our conversation today. But before we begin, we should start with a prayer and the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit. Amen. Hail Mary hail, Mary full of grace. The Lord is with the blessed, our thou amongst women and blessed. It is the fruit of the th Jesus,
Speaker 2 00:00:50 Holy Mary mother of God. Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.
Speaker 1 00:00:55 Amen. In the name of the father and of son of the holy spirit. Amen. Amen. Of course I chose, uh, the prayer of our blessed mother today because of one of the most beautiful stain glass windows at St. James, we're gonna get to it eventually is that image of our blessed mother, the IAC, the conception. So she is our, our own ass.
Speaker 2 00:01:12 That is a very powerful image. And it's right in my sight line as
Speaker 1 00:01:15 Just as you.
Speaker 2 00:01:16 Yes, we recently celebrated the feast of St. James, who really is for us, the patron of the diocese in cathedral, the cathedral Basilica, a place of great importance to so many of our priests to so many of our people for now 200 years, but we celebrated its foundations first as a parish, as a parish now has great significance. And joining us for that discussion is Monsignor John string Kowski, as you mentioned, was rector of St. James cathedral, but my experience, uh, my friendship, you might say with Monsignor string, Kowski goes back more than 30 years to my days as a seminarian Monsignor string Kowski was the rector of the seminary of the immaculate conception built by the diocese of Brooklyn now in the diocese of Rockville center. But for many generations, also a place where many of our priests were formed and prepared to serve God's people as priests. So when I first went there, Monsignor McKowski was my teacher. So everything I know about the church and about the Eucharist about the sacraments, that all comes from Monsignor string, Kowski welcome, uh, Monsignor string Kowski.
Speaker 3 00:02:27 Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. It's good to be with you this morning.
Speaker 1 00:02:31 Boy, you've been rector for a rector for how many different times have you been rector? Rector of seminaries, rectors of cathedrals.
Speaker 3 00:02:39 Oh yeah, only twice. Only twice.
Speaker 1 00:02:41 <laugh>
Speaker 3 00:02:43 It's Huntington, the seminary 10 years. And then, and then St. James, uh, cathedral 10 years also. So wonderful. Otherwise, otherwise I had other titles <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:02:51 Yeah, you did. And you served and you served the church, um, nationally, and your served the church universally through the, through you service at the, uh, United States Catholic conference of Bishop after your time in Huntington. But then before that you were serving the holy father on the congregation of bishops, right?
Speaker 3 00:03:10 That's right. For many years. Yeah. For many years it did that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad I wasn't there. When your file came through <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:03:19 You might have had some comments
Speaker 4 00:03:21 <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:03:21 Oh, I know him. I remember
Speaker 4 00:03:23 <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:03:26 Wonderful. If I may, you know, and senior, just in your, your 10 years there at the parish, what's one of the highlights of, of your time there. What would be one of your, one of the moments that you look back and you say, wow, I, that was one of my highlights at St. James.
Speaker 3 00:03:42 Well, more than any specific moment, it would've been, it would've been the people, the, the loyalty of the prisoners was just understanding you were parishioners there. They had been there for 40 years, perhaps. In fact, I, I was, I was wondering if, if I would meet someone who said to me, oh, I remember you as a seminarian. <laugh> wow. But, uh, there was one, there was one gentleman, an elderly man who loved to show the church to visitors. Interesting enough, his first name was Hugo, but he loved to, to show off the church. And, uh, he was so enthusiastic about, so any, anytime he saw a new face, he would go approach them and start telling them, welcoming them and tell, this is, this is daily before the daily NA he was just so enthused about the church and its beauty and, and its history and its meaning. And so it was people like that who really touched me very deeply, the fidelity to the parish, to the community and to this historic place. To me that that was a very fine,
Speaker 1 00:04:41 One of my most memorable moments there at St. James was, uh, with Bishop Daley, he loved to quote the scripture that's on the ball to keynote. He'd often say, you know, with that Boston accident, feed him to Alexia AOS. Yes. You know, and, uh, and, uh, he'd loved them to the end. And, um, and it's just a, some very warm moments, warm memories, uh, that I share that I have, uh, there at, at St. James as a seminarian going and serving my first Matt diocese and masses there. And
Speaker 3 00:05:12 I think it's great. The, the, the 200 anniversary of the parish. I mean, I think, I think it's, it's, uh, it's a very important moment. I think in the history of the diocese, uh, 200 years of this parish, uh, the first parish on all of long island, I mean, that's awesome. And I mean, inevitably there would've been Catholic parishes established, but the fact is that St. James was the first, and that's when we ought to celebrate, we, we're a church that celebrates, uh, you might call them incarnation moments, you know, where the church takes concrete shape in a particular place, a particular time. And for us on all of long island, that's, that's the, the Paris of St. James in, in the year, 1822. And the wonderful thing about it is that it was an initiative by immigrants, Irish immigrants, who, uh, were going by ferry over to lower Manhattan to go to mass there.
Speaker 3 00:06:03 And of course in the wintertime that that would not have been a very pleasant experience. And so on January 1st, 1822, they wrote to the Bishop of New York and asked for a priest and the Bishop replied positively complied with that request. Uh, so you have this group of Irish immigrants who take the initiative and lay people, you know, and, and what did they want? They wanted mass and they wanted education for their children. That that was the purpose of, of their writing. They wanted it there in Brooklyn. Uh, and what then was the village of Brooklyn, if you can imagine the village of Brooklyn at that time. And so they, they, they took this initiative. And so that was the beginning of the parish. And, and then from there, it just, the church continues to grow right across all over long island. And it's an amazing phenomenon, 200 years of a steady existence there.
Speaker 3 00:06:52 What, what amazes me that for 200 years, the Eucharist has been celebrated in that parish, not necessarily in that building, that the current building, the current building goes back only to the beginning of the 20th century, because the original building burnt down and, and then was replaced. But in the parish, the parish itself has honored and celebrated and remembered the Eucharist for 200 years. What, what an amazing thing, when you think about that, we have this, this continuity that's, that's, I think, uh, something to be very grateful for and that we should be celebrating today.
Speaker 2 00:07:24 And, you know, that's an interesting point, the continuity, because you mentioned before the village of Brooklyn and our experience being so different, but over these 200 years, this part of Brooklyn, as all of long island has seen enormous changes and, um, yes. And, and changes to the changes and something that has been constant. Something that is consistent has been the, the celebration of the Eucharist and the people of God gathering around, right. For the Eucharist
Speaker 3 00:07:55 And the adaptability of the people of the parish, you know, as circumstances changed, you know, they, they adapted, they built a school, you know, they, they, they created all various alies and organizations. And this is with the help, obviously of various religious orders, who, who served in that parish at different times. But, but there were so many programs, so many organizations, so much adaptability, and even in terms then of demographics began to change and Hispanics move into the neighborhood. Well, the priests at that time, in, in the thirties and sixties learned Spanish so that they could serve the Spanish people. So constant change and constant adaptability, uh, to what was to what was happening around them.
Speaker 1 00:08:35 The, um, you Monsignor you, uh, were, uh, I have a copy of your article that is gonna be published in the tablet, uh, regarding the, uh, 200th anniversary of, of this, of a unique parish of St. James. And, uh, you mentioned in the very beginning of it, that you were, uh, there in the summers of 1959 and 1960 to do like a census of, of the Catholics in the neighborhood, what, what was that experience like for you?
Speaker 3 00:09:00 Well, there, there were several seminarians, several of us doing this. So it was knocking on doors and basically asking, you know, are you Catholic? Uh, we're here to represent, let's say about St. James parish. We, we were going into the projects, you know, going from floor to floor and knocking on doors. Of course, we met people, some people who, who already were parishioners, then we also met people who were going over to St. Anne's, which was a nearby parish, which no longer, no longer exists. And then we met, we met a lot of non-Catholics obviously, and we gave them a word about St. James. So we, we were doing this in, in the evenings, hot summer evenings sometimes <laugh>, it was a good experience just, you know, to reach out and to let people, uh, know about the parish and then obviously to make a record for the priests in terms of following up so that the priest then could follow up, cuz we were only there for the summer. We were going back to the seminary priests then would be up to follow up. Sure. And, you know, a more in depth contact with the people.
Speaker 1 00:09:56 I think the one thing that remains, uh, about our great city of New York and, and the diocese of Brooklyn and Queens certainly is that, uh, it still continues to be ever changing, you know, think about the, the neighborhood then, uh, down there in downtown Brooklyn and think of it now just in 40 years, but even in the last 10, uh, the LA every five years or so, it seems to in change.
Speaker 3 00:10:20 Incredible, incredible. I, I wish I had a photo from when I went in 2005, sort of, of, of the horizon, a photo, you know, just what, what it looked like by the time I left in 2015, 10 years later, the horizon was totally different. All these new buildings that went up, it was just an incredible development. And we, we started to try to reach out, you know, we, to the, to the newer population now, younger people coming in, there was a little bit of success with that, but I'm hoping that the anniversary, the word will get out and people will hear about St. James and the neighborhood. And, uh, maybe that will, you know, bring some of the Catholics, uh, Catholics still even, even to, to experience the church.
Speaker 1 00:11:01 Sure,
Speaker 2 00:11:01 Sure. There are many people, as you say, there are residential buildings going up, but there were also a great deal of, uh, businesses nearby and
Speaker 3 00:11:09 Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 00:11:10 And the courts are not far from there, so, and, and hotels. So there are people who come in who are really just passing through Brooklyn. And this is a great opportunity for people to experience the church in a different way through, um, through the parish of St. James and the history and the beauty of the, uh, Basilica.
Speaker 3 00:11:28 Right. Yeah. And that that's, I mean, that was a rewarding thing, you know, that, that people coming, coming through just visiting relatives or on vacation and coming from mass on Sunday. And sometimes what I would do is I would go, I would go into the church before mass and, and ask people, you know, where you're from, you know, we're from Boise or we're from Chicago, you know, we're from San Francisco, you know? And so at the beginning of mass then, and I, I almost sounded like I was on paper audience. So today we want to welcome <laugh> visitors from boys, Idaho, from San Francisco, from Chicago and so on, you know, but it was, it was it very, you know, but, you know, unfortunately they just passing through, but hoping maybe they they'd be back next year, you know, so they just don't know, but they, but they had a positive experience of church yeah. Uh, of Sunday Eucharist. And again, as you mentioned before, uh, the beautiful, uh, stain glass window of our macular of the ception, but all, all the windows are, uh, are so spectacular, really sunny Sunday morning. The church is absolutely glows, uh, because of the, the different colors. And it gives a very, very beautiful hue to the church because it's, it's all these different colors and the windows windows are just so, so splendid. So, uh, so hopefully people have a, uh, positive experience of church when they, when they come there,
Speaker 2 00:12:46 Please God, please, God, it, you know, we had a significant visit, I think back in 1995. There's it's commemorated on the door of the cathedral when pop oh, yes. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> pop St. John Paul II mm-hmm <affirmative> came that's right at the threshold of, of the steps there to, to greet the people of Brooklyn.
Speaker 3 00:13:04 Mm-hmm <affirmative> it was a rainy day <laugh>. Oh, was
Speaker 2 00:13:06 It?
Speaker 3 00:13:08 But, uh, yeah, but, uh, so among our outstanding visitors, yes, that's right
Speaker 2 00:13:13 Now, you know, St. James himself is a patron for pilgrims. Yes. And, um, you know, you think of the pilgrims shell and the image of St. PA James with the hat on and the walking stick and, and, and the shell, uh, people make the pilgrimage to Santiago decom Costello. This too St. James Basilica cathedral is, um, is, is a, is a pilgrimage site. It's funny, not long ago. Um, my father, uh, who grew up in St. Bridges parish in Riz, Ridgewood spoke about being a student in school. And one of the things they did was they made a visit a pilgrimage to the cathedral of St. James
Speaker 3 00:13:57 Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 00:13:58 <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I think that's something we're trying to recapture recently, a school from long island made a pilgrimage, one of the summer camp groups. Uh, they came over two weeks and visited as part of a visit to the downtown Brooklyn area. And yes, and certainly that's in this anniversary year. That's something we'd like to encourage, especially parish groups and school groups, what a great opportunity, right.
Speaker 3 00:14:19 It would be, and interesting enough people over the years, people came on their own sometimes individuals or families because, uh, they, they saw the mass on television. They said, well, we wanna go and see the church live as where I would be surprised at times, you know, seeing new faces, oh, how come you came here today? Well, because, you know, we went to visit this church. Uh, people, uh, do find, do find the church to be, uh, very attractive. And yes, I agree. I hope that it can become more and more of a, a place of place of pilgrimage, the cause again, uh, the beauty of the church, but also the history, the history of the parish. Uh, so that to get to know the, uh, roots of Catholicism on long island, I think it's a fascinating story.
Speaker 1 00:15:03 Does sales media, um, Monsignor help put together a, a beautiful documentary on St. James, which your you're also a part of, you know, the speaking of, just of the history just a little bit, if we could just delve a little bit deeper into it, the name of someone who's was very important in this whole historical process of, of the creation of St. James was, uh, Peter Turner. Can you talk just a little bit about, well,
Speaker 3 00:15:28 He, you know, he, again, Irish immigrant, he was sort of the facilitator, I guess the one who brought together the group and motivated them to do this letter. He had the, he had the vision, he had the faith, he had the energy to, uh, to do this. So as a result, even now in the garden St. James, there was a bust of, of Peter Turner. Yes. In remembrance of, of what he did. I don't recall too much now about, uh, his own family or where he came from in Ireland. I don't don't remember, remember that now precisely, but, uh, I think there, I think there is a, in, in one of the history books of the diocese, there is more detail regarding where he came from and what his family was like.
Speaker 1 00:16:04 He must have had really some, uh, you know, what himself in the, the 70 or so that they said, we're traveling across the, the water to Manhattan. And, uh, and that note that he wrote, I mean, he, the same year he wrote the note, the, the church was established 1822, you know, the same year he wrote that petition. And I like to, part of that petition was we want our children instructed in the principles of holy religion. We want more convenience in hearing the word of God ourselves. I like that. Yes. We want more convenience and hearing the word of God ourselves,
Speaker 3 00:16:35 Which, which, which is right. Yeah. Uh, one of the, one of the signers of, uh, that letter was a man named McCloskey, uh, not related to the Cardinal McCloskey. This is another McCloskey. He had five children, three of them became priests priests for the diocese of New York. At that time. Obviously one of the priests though eventually became the first director of the north Merton college. Oh. Who then also then became the Archbishop of Louis. Eventually these are, there are interesting connections like this, you know, where this, uh, humble parish <laugh> was the source of other types of leadership in the church. So I, I think that, that, uh, that's something that needs to be remembered as well.
Speaker 1 00:17:13 For sure. For sure.
Speaker 2 00:17:15 And then I, um, you mentioned the ordination of priests, um, for generations, um, St. James was the site, many of our priests hold St. James important, because that was the place where they were ordained.
Speaker 3 00:17:29 And, and, and what amazes me, what amazes me is that priests who ordained there may, may have seen St. James only that day, right. Who may not have seen it any other time, but that church remains very geared to them because there was the place of the ordination. It's an obvious tribute to their own love for the priest to, to, and, and their appreciation for the day of the ordination, which took place in St. James. So there is among many priests who ordained there, there is this, this, uh, this bond, this affection for, for St. James.
Speaker 2 00:18:01 And now we're in the midst of our bicentennial year and we have a number of celebrations. So I had the privilege on January 1st. That was the date. They, uh, initially wrote the letter. Um, yes, petitioning, I, I opened the year at the, uh, Basilica. And then, um, through the course of the year, we've had some celebrations. We just celebrated the feast of St. James there, but we're looking forward in August to, uh, big celebration, welcoming, uh, Cardinal Dolan, Bishop Barris, because this is a significant moment for the church on all of long island and a number of people. So we have this, uh, celebration coming up
Speaker 3 00:18:39 Yes. On August of 14th, Cardinal Dolan will lead us. And so it's so appropriate because again, it was the Bishop of New York at that time in 1822, Bishop Conley, who responded to the, uh, petition from the, uh, computer Turner and the others. So it's appropriate that today's Bishop of New York arch church of New York con Dolan would be leading us in the, in the celebration. Of course, Colonel Dolan, his studies were in church, church, church history, specifically American church history. So I suspect he might give us some insights into, into some of that history for St. James. And so I think that's, that's a very appropriate way to celebrate to liturgically, uh, this anniversary
Speaker 2 00:19:16 Absolutely. It'll be a day of, of great joy. And so, uh, Cardinal Dolan is coming. I know Bishop Paris is coming from Rockville center, because as you said before, this is a significant moment. Not only for us in Brooklyn and in Queens, but really all of long island, Brooklyn, Queens NAAU Suffolk, because it's the beginning of parish life
Speaker 3 00:19:35 Here. Yes. And I, I think there's a great connection also between St. James and one of the parishes here in Rockwell CIDI, and that is St hu of Lincoln in Huntington station, uh, around 1900 or so when a, a prominent, uh, St James person or died, his wife asked the diocese, what could she do, uh, in his memory? And the diocese, uh, asked her to make a donation to establish a new parish. Her husband's name was Hugh, uh, also in Irish immigrant, uh, Brooklyn then established the parish of St hu of Lincoln in Huntington sanction with the donation that he, that he got from the widow.
Speaker 2 00:20:12 And that's great because, you know, there aren't many churches dedicated to St. New <laugh>,
Speaker 3 00:20:17 So that's right.
Speaker 2 00:20:19 <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:20:20 So that's right. So, and I'm, I'm looking forward to that. And, you know, this was sort of underway when I first arrived back in November. Um, it was really just being able then to move forward and, um, I'm, I'm excited about it, and I'm, I'm glad to be able to be back in Brooklyn and Queens a at this time when we're celebrating one of those, um, historical moments, one of those foundational moments, the church being present in the life of the people. So many in so many ways. So the mess of father Chris is on Sunday, August 14th. Yeah. I believe it's a two. O'clock correct.
Speaker 1 00:20:58 That's right. Yeah. Two o'clock. And then we'll be broadcast, also live on, on
Speaker 2 00:21:01 Net TV. It'll be broadcast on net TV. And so we really wanted to see a lot of people joining us, but also their presence. So our priests have been invited, unfortunately, it's a time when many people are traveling or away. So we, we will not have everybody there, but, um, I'm hoping that we have a great showing certainly of the priests, but of many people invest each parish to send some representative. So you may hear something about, I don't know, tickets or invitation. So tho those are out there, but we really wanna encourage anybody who would like to come to please to join us for that day. It should be a great celebration.
Speaker 3 00:21:39 And, and people might be intimidated because it's downtown Brooklyn, but, uh, there's lots of subways there, but also a lot of parking garages, like, like within four or five, six minute walk of the church. So, uh, so there's lot of possibilities.
Speaker 2 00:21:53 That's right. It may take a little bit of planning, but hopefully people will be able to get there. And then, um, and then we'll continue the celebration even beyond then, because we do, we wanna see PIL, uh, pilgrimages. And hopefully this is one of those moments that, uh, reinvigorates us as a parish, as a diocese, um, in, in, in those, in, in our faith and in, in our presence here in the heart of Brooklyn.
Speaker 3 00:22:19 Yes. Especially, you know, with deficit now, from Paul Francis on ality, the fact that it was late people who took the initiative, the Bishop listened, heard, and responded, uh, you know, so, so that, in a sense, this was an early instance of C of people expressing their faith, expressing their desire for Eucharist, articulating that in a letter to the Bishop of New York. You know, it's it's, as I say, an early example of C.
Speaker 1 00:22:45 So it's, it is a very, it's a wonderful opportunity for, for us as a diocese, I think, to come together and, and really recreate that historical, celebrate the history and, and also celebrate where it will continue and, and how St. James will continue to stand as a beacon of Christ light to the people of downtown Brooklyn and to our, uh, long island as a whole.
Speaker 3 00:23:07 Yes. That, that's my hope. That's my hope for this, for this anniversary. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 00:23:11 Yeah. Well, thank you Monsignor Kowski for joining us today for, for this particular discussion, but thank you for all the work that you've done commemorating this moment, really encouraging us to celebrate it. So enthusiastically allow it to be a moment of that, that renewal, thanks for being with us today.
Speaker 3 00:23:30 Thank you. It's a privilege. Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker 2 00:23:32 Well, I wanna close our session by offering the prayer from the mess on the feast of St. James, let us pray almighty ever living God who consecrated the first fruits of your apostles by the blood of St. James Grant. We pray that your church may be strengthened by his confession of faith and constantly sustained by his protection through our Lord Jesus Christ, your son who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the holy spirit, God forever endeavor. Amen. Amen. And may the Lord bless you today? And always in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit. Amen. And
Speaker 1 00:24:16 Amen. Thank you again, um, on senior string Kowski for, for joining us today, uh, in another addition of our podcast, big city Catholics with Bishop Robert Brennan, the Bishop of Brooklyn and myself, father Chris, HEK just, again, we hope that you'll join us, uh, on this beautiful celebration on Sunday, August 14th at 2:00 PM at St. James, uh, cathedral in downtown Brooklyn. And may God bless you. Bye now.
