Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome back to big city Catholics with Bishop Robert Brennan, the diocesan bishop of Brooklyn, and myself, Father Christopher Henny. The first time bishop and I have had a chance to sit down in this new year. It's great to be with you, bishop.
[00:00:20] Speaker B: It's great to be with you. And yeah, in a sense, happy new year to you, to everyone listening. I started the new year on New Year's Day itself in St. Louis with a group of a delegation, I should say from here in Brooklyn and Queens at the Sikh conference. And we've had the last two weeks different interviews to talk about the impact of that Sikh conference. It's run by focus Fellowship of catholic university students, and it was just such an uplifting event. And I hope you've enjoyed listening to the voices of Father Jose and of some of our missionaries and students. That's right.
[00:00:58] Speaker A: Thank you, bishop, for that. And welcome back to the podcast Room. This week we want to talk a little bit about just the theme of human dignity of the human being, the human person, as we begin this week with Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, and we end with the march for life. And so it's really just a theme of dignity of the human person. I'd like to begin our prayer taking a prayer from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops entitled Life and Dignity of the Human Person, and we pray in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. God of all life, help us to appreciate the great gift that is human life, formed in your image, a reflection of your holiness. Help us to recognize you in all whom you have created. Children not yet born, families affected by poverty and war, people of different abilities, people from other lands, and all who are victims of hatred and racism. Help us to bear witness to the dignity of all whom you have created, regardless of stage of life or wealth or ability or color or creed, for every person is fully equal in your loving eyes. Share with us your holy knowledge that we are all your children, each bestowed with inherent dignity. May your justice reign forever. Amen. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
[00:02:19] Speaker B: So this week, Father Henyu is the New York state bishops retreat. It was moved to this week. I got to be here in the snow while they were all down in Florida. But with the change of the dates, I had Martin Luther King celebrations on Monday and I really wanted to be there for those. So I'll be taking my retreat at another time. We had a great celebration of Martin Luther King Day at St. Thomas on Flatbush and Flatlands and my friend, we teased, were episcopal twins. Archbishop Perez, the archbishop of Philadelphia, presided at the mass and preached. He had done a pastoral letter on racism, and it was just a great celebration. So much joy, so much hope as we considered the prophetic voice of Dr. Martin Luther King. And then a little reception after just gave me a chance to see some really becoming old friends, people who I've been meeting along the way in the course of these two years, our ambassadors, the young people who are involved, some of the people who've made the treks of our eucharistic pilgrimages, people I meet in the parishes. It was really a wonderful, wonderful day.
[00:03:29] Speaker A: I was reading about it in this week's edition of the tablet. The article was published about the Martin Luther King Mass. And one of the comments that Archbishop Nelson Perez made so eloquently is, we've still got some walk in to do.
[00:03:43] Speaker B: This is what remembrance is about. Remembrance, of course, is a very catholic theme. We remember, first of all, we realize what has happened. What has occurred. He started off by saying, if you had told Martin Luther King there was going to be a federal holiday in his name, he would have said, are you kidding me? With what he was going through at that time. But a phrase Archbishop Perez kept underscoring, never underestimate the work that the Holy Spirit can do in us, through us and in spite of us, people really grasped onto that. So on the one hand, we remember all that really has happened in these 50, some OD years, but at the same time, we still have a long walk to make. We have a lot of work to do.
[00:04:24] Speaker A: Yeah, we certainly do. And you see it. We see it in our city, in our country, and around the world as we recognize that peace and that equality begins from within. It has to start with us first and foremost, and then through prayer and through solidarity.
[00:04:40] Speaker B: Absolutely. And racism takes different forms. And so we have to reject, in the strongest of terms, any kind of racism, any kind of discrimination because of the color of somebody's skin, because of where they come from, because of who they are. At the same time, we have to recognize the reality of antisemitism that's so rampant in our own community right now. That's a form of racism. And even the issues that underscore it, human dignity, are at the heart of everything that we do. So reject racism because it's a sin against human dignity. You look in the eye of every human person and you see the spark of God's image, even if they're not a believer. God made that person in his image and likeness. So you see the spark of divinity, of God's imprint on every human person. So you have to reject racism, you have to reject anti semitism. It's basically what motivates us in our care for the immigrants who are arriving in our community. That's a very complicated issue. And I think we could make some real concerns about some of the policies that are allowing the things that are happening. But at the same time, we're talking about human dignity of individual people and of families. And so moved by that, we spring into action because there's a need. Our brothers and sisters have a need, human people have a need. And people here have been so generous, and our parishes and catholic charities have been so generous. But that principle of human dignity underscores every bit of that.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: In last week's tablet, there was an article about the refugee camps here in Brooklyn in Floyd Bennett Field. And one of the quotes from Father Dwayne Davis simply said, look, regardless of the politics and the policies, these people are here and they're people, and they need us to care for them and they need help. That's, again, seeing Christ in them, seeing the spark of the image of God in each person.
[00:06:37] Speaker B: You can criticize some of the policies causing all of this. You can criticize some of the acts of the city that people are in the shelter, but then being dropped off in neighborhoods, you can criticize all that, but people need to be cared for. And quite honestly, what they're doing in that deanery is a help to the neighborhood, because people are going around looking for help. So at least we have a central place where we can coordinate it, and that's good for the community, too.
[00:07:02] Speaker A: Bishop, they mention, certainly we hear this often, the idea of from conception until natural death. And so we begin this whole week as a week of dignity of the human person.
[00:07:12] Speaker B: Thursday, really, the night before this recording lands is the national vigil for life. The basilica is usually packed, packed with a lot of veterans, people who've been fighting the fight for years and years and years, but also with a lot of young people. There's a great enthusiasm and profound faith that's expressed there. And then there is prayer throughout the night. We're not just a political movement. This isn't just about politics. Yes, there's a political aspect to it. We're witnessing to the dignity of life. But before we do anything, we get down on our knees and we pray. That's what we do as Catholics. So march for life is not a catholic movement. It's nondenomination. It's people of all different faiths who are concerned about the reality of abortion. But for us, as Catholics, we do so. As Catholics, we do so with profound respect for people who disagree with us. And we're looking to witness, to transform the culture. But we begin on our knees. We begin at the altar, asking God's continued help and offering ourselves to be witnesses of hope.
[00:08:20] Speaker A: And this year we've been recording these podcasts now for over a year. Unbelievably recall last year we're talking about this topic. Of course, this year is going to be a lot different, I think, than what we've experienced or what you experienced.
[00:08:33] Speaker B: And last year was different than the year before.
[00:08:35] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:08:35] Speaker B: So last year some people were questioning, do we really need to do this now with the Dobbs decision in the Supreme Court? And there was a little bit of an enthusiasm because of the DobbS decision. What Dobbs did is Dobbs did not end abortion. The Dobbs decision was really giving people the opportunity at least to talk about it. And so it goes back to the states. Now, this year there's a little bit of a concern because a lot of the state initiatives, either initiatives to protect the dignity of life, failed and others really to enshrine abortion laws have passed. So we do have the concern and we need now to witness at the level of the states. I've always said this, there's no magic wand you can flip a decision, but that doesn't in itself transform the culture. We have a much bigger job because we have good news to share with the world, the good news of life and the good news of solidarity that we can walk together and help each other in concerning decisions. We have good news to share and we want to proclaim it, but we do it with hope, we do it with confidence. We do it boldly, and we realize we need to transform the culture. Pope St. John Paul II spoke about the culture of death and the culture of life. And we need in so many ways, not just with abortion. Yes, primarily without that right, the right to live, all the other rights fall apart. That's a fundamental right. But we need to witness to the dignity of life. Just like Archbishop Perez said about the racism. We also have a lot of work to do here, a long walk ahead of us here, and we need to do it. But at least we can talk about.
[00:10:20] Speaker A: Imagine, you know, as bishop of one of the most populated seas of the country, and also in New York City, in this state of New York, do the bishops of New York gather together to discuss possible approaches and what is happening on a local church level?
[00:10:37] Speaker B: Well, you know, a lot of these laws were enshrined into New York law well before the Dobbs decision.
[00:10:42] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: So we're already living with that. And what we have to do is keep pointing to the contradictions that are in there. We really need a lot of help from the people on the ground. Bishops can't make a statement, and suddenly the politicians are going to scurry about and change policy based on what we say. But we need to be consistent voices in the fight for life. We need to be consistent voices for human dignity, and we need to show that we are not living contradictions, that we are going to be witnesses for life and the dignity of life in every stage. So one of the things that's very important with the bishops, to answer your question, what can we do? We have the resources on the New York State Catholic Conference website, but we want to be able to be in solidarity with women in need at the time of pregnancy. We want to be able to give the support that is needed. We want to support couples, and we want to support families so that people don't need to make the decision to abort a child. Sometimes. One of the things that's happened in this culture is because of the availability of abortion that's often put forth as the only choice. And in fact, the state, New York state has taken all kinds of actions to make sure that that's the case. Even really going after some of the pro life organizations that are providing alternatives to abortion, what we want to do is make sure that we are walking with moms in need. Walking with moms in need means solidarity. It's more than just dropping off a gift, but it means really identifying with both the mom and the child. And so we have some resources we can connect. We have organizations here, and a lot of our parishes work with those organizations, the Life Center, Bridge for Life. We have opportunities, ways that we can show alternatives. We want to be able to tell that good news here in Brooklyn and Queens so our parishes can tell the story that there are alternatives to abortion. And these are the resources. We should have those resources at our hands, readily available and posted about. But also we want to be in solidarity and sharing with the need, with the efforts. We had some of the staff upbridge to life here. It was a very good conversation, a very good podcast. So that's one thing that we're doing, and both at the state level and right here in Brooklyn and Queens. But you mentioned in New York state, you mentioned conception to natural death. Really, one of the concerns is the natural death side of things. There are efforts to legalize what they call assisted suicide, which is essentially euthanasia. In states that have done that. What you see is really, again, a washing of the hands. Well, we don't have to do these things because the humane thing is to give a pill or something like that, that's a dangerous, dangerous road. You see that the care goes down for the elderly, for the people who are in critical states because, well, they have an alternative. They can just bring an end to it all. This is a very slippery slope of, this is very dangerous legislation. And so we want to keep telling that story. That's going to be the next concern right here in New York state. It didn't get to the floor this year, but you never know. It comes up every once in a while. There was some pushes for that.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: It's a constant effort, really, as you're mentioning, just to show that solidarity and to show it by our example, by the way we're living our lives and by, as you say, the readily available resources that our priests should have, that our pastors should have, that our lay faithful should have to know where to point someone in the right direction. So many times, bishop, people come to the parish looking for counseling assistance, professional counseling help or other things that perhaps is not so readily available to be able to give our priests, our pastors, our staffs these resources to tell people where to go and how to go and walk with them there and not just point them, but to walk with them.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: And, you know, that's true about the abortion, but there are resources, alternatives to in vitro fertilization, which brings about concerns. The Gianna center has centers in New York, out on Long island, in New Jersey. The Gianna center gives some very ethical but very more effective. Sometimes the so called catholic approach is less expensive and more effective than some of these experimental treatments. So you have that as an alternative to surrogacy and some of the in vitro fertilization. There are catholic approaches that are grounded in science, so we want to be able to share those resources and tell that story.
[00:15:22] Speaker A: Amen.
[00:15:23] Speaker B: Now, the other thing, Father Henry, you raised the phrase from conception to natural death. Those are two key moments, but we also mean this for everything in between. And that's why the witness we were talking about earlier about racism and antisemitism, the issues surrounding violence and abuse, the drug culture right now, why these matter to us, because on the one hand, we lose credibility if we're talking about conception to natural death. But we're only focusing on those two because human dignity is all through life. Again, we need to see the human dignity of every person. But the converse is true as well. Without that fundamental right, life without respect for the dignity of person, in those moments, all other rights, all other concerns fall apart. They can't stand. If you don't have the right to exist, then what about the others? So that's been named in different ways, that it's a preeminent issue. I would say it's a foundational issue, sure, that respect for the dignity of every human person begins there and then just builds. But for every moment in life's journey, you know, this weekend I'm going to be at St. Agnes in Brooklyn for the celebration of their patronal feast. I have a great, great devotion to St. Agnes. St. Agnes was a teenage saint. She was martyred in the year 304 or so, just a few years before Christianity was declared to be legal, as it were. The office of the day talks about how young people really can witness something to us. It says, at that age, you'd be concerned about a pin prick and cry out in pain. And yet she bravely stood tall, and she showed the world what it means to be faithful. And they say that pilgrims, in order to visit her tomb from the very, very beginning, had to turn their backs on the wonders of ancient Romes to face her grave. And here's this young woman, 14 years old or so from the fourth century, whose name goes on and on, who stands tall. I often, when I talk about her with young people, I say it was a young roman governor, the son of the roman governor, who wanted to marry her and promised her first all kinds of power and riches and all kinds of things. Peer pressure, right? But then he resorted to ridicule and violence, another form of peer pressure. And she stood tall against both. And I usually finish by saying, do you know what his name was? And everybody's looking around is silent, like they should know the answer, and they don't. I say, neither do I. He's a nobody. He's forgotten. But St. Agnes stands. 1700 years later, St. Agnes stands. I'm really looking forward to that celebration. But when we talk about human dignity and when we talk about standing firm in the faith, standing strong in those convictions, a teenager showed us the way. And that's why seeing the young people witnessing to these things is always a great encouragement to me.
[00:18:19] Speaker A: And you've seen it. I mean, you see it now, the young people witnessing to this at seek, you saw it certainly world Youth Day. But you saw it recently in our diocese at the World Youth Day reunion event, and you get this opportunity as diocesan bishop to see it time and time again.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: Exactly. Before I went to Lisbon for the World Youth Day, I was down in Maryland with the delegation for the National Black Catholic Congress. There, too, we had people of all ages celebrating heritage, but I was struck by our young people there, too, the young ambassadors. Father Davis, we mentioned him before, has developed this program for young people with leadership in mind. So these are young people who are service oriented leaders. And, oh, was I ever impressed by them. I've been impressed by them. I've seen them a number of times in this diocese doing great works. But it was great to be with them down in Maryland. And now having been there with them, seeing them right here again for Martin Luther King Day. So you're right. We have young people all over who are witnessing, living the gospel, and they have a lot to teach us.
[00:19:25] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. And a very special happy feast day to you, especially as St. Agnes means much to you personally and to your home diocese.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: That's right. I was ordained a priest and a bishop in the cathedral of St. Agnes, and I served in that parish for a number of years, and she's a great patron for all of us, and I'm looking forward to being in St. Agnes Church here in Brooklyn.
[00:19:46] Speaker A: Amen. Bishop, perhaps you'd like to give us a blessing.
[00:19:49] Speaker B: Look upon us, O Lord, in your love and mercy, and help us to be witnesses, certainly of your love in the world, but witnesses for the dignity of every human life. And may almighty God bless all of you today and always. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
[00:20:09] Speaker A: Thank you for joining us for another edition of our Dos and podcast, Big City Catholics. We hope that you will share this on your social media platforms and continue to tune in each and every week to join us for another edition. God bless.
