Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:10 Welcome back to another edition of our Dias and podcast Big City Catholics with Bishop Robert Brennan, the Dias and Bishop of Brooklyn, and myself, father Christopher, hen you the rector of the Co Cathedral of St. Joseph. We're happy to that you have joined us again as we reflect on Bishop Brennan's and the Diocese of Brooklyn and our country's more recent March for Life and other topics of great importance to us as our diocese and, and as a people of faith. And so perhaps, uh, we can begin with prayer, asking our blessed mothers intercession upon us, the Father, son, and Holy Spirit. Amen. Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with th blessed heart, thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of the I womb Jesus.
Speaker 2 00:00:51 Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sin now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Speaker 1 00:00:55 Amen. Name of the Father, son and Holy Spirit. Amen. So Bishop, last week we had, um, deacon Kevin McCormick on, and I know that, uh, we were talking about Catholic Schools Week, which is quickly approaching, and I'm sure he's more and more excited about it. But as we were talking about Catholic Schools Week and the upcoming events that you had, one of the topics was the pro-life march that took place this past week. You had an opportunity to go down there and, and so did some pilgrims from our diocese. Tell us a little bit about how was that experience for you? Well,
Speaker 2 00:01:25 It's always a very inspiring, uplifting event, and this year was no different. It really was uplifting the fact that we were in Washington DC in January, but in 50 degree light jacket kind of weather really added to <laugh> the enjoyment of it. It was wonderful. The weather was great as it was logic here. The day before the travel day was a little rainy, but the day of the March was,
Speaker 1 00:01:49 That's unique, just amazing because for years as seminarians would go down there, and it was always, it always seemed to be the coldest day of the year. It was either snowing or raining. There were very few of my years that I've visited for the march that were 50 degrees
Speaker 2 00:02:06 And forgive my lack of knowledge, you know, in civic history and all of that. But it always seems to me that Supreme Court decisions come out in June. There's like a whole slew of them. The end of June, how did this one slip by in the middle of January? <laugh> <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:02:23 That was always the penitent part of it, you know,
Speaker 2 00:02:26 And, and you know what people were always good for, and we're talking 50 years. So this year, Sunday the 22nd marked the actual 50th anniversary of the Roe v Wade decision, which basically the, the real effect of Roe v. Wade, let's keep this in mind, was not to make abortion legal, but to put an end to the conversation because it was a state matter and it was regulated by states and people could have political debate about it. But basically when the Supreme Court weighed in in 1973, it just said, Nope,
Speaker 1 00:02:57 This is the law. The
Speaker 2 00:02:58 One this is, this is it. Yeah. And there's no recourse. So the overturning of Roe v. Wade, by way of Dobbs did not put an end to abortion. And we know that. But what it does do is it says we can have reasonable conversations that can happen at state level. And I know that there are things that people can come to an agreement on. Obviously our goal is to transform the hearts and minds to transform the culture, to bring about a culture whereby abortion would be unthinkable. But rather to say there's such a conversion that people would say, oh no, yeah, we, we, we wouldn't want this. And a culture that was welcoming and assisting to young women and to young families in time and pregnancy. So that, again, it would be unthinkable because it wouldn't be a perceived necessity. So we are talking about going a long way of transform culture, but while that's our goal, we can absolutely say that there are certain limits that large numbers of people will agree upon. Hmm. Including some of the regulations, some of the timing. But at least now we can have those conversations,
Speaker 1 00:04:04 Find things that we can both agree on. And hope as you're
Speaker 2 00:04:08 Saying to That's right. Change
Speaker 1 00:04:10 The hearts, the
Speaker 2 00:04:11 Culture. Exactly. Exactly. So the march this year, it's always inspiring. You have your veterans people who've been at it for 50 years. Yeah. And they bring a certain joy with them. And this year's particular joy celebrating. That's right. Yeah. The achievement of a goal, I mean, that was a goal. And even the root of the march was changed because yeah, they went to the Supreme Court, but they went by way of Congress because it's less of a protest against the Supreme Court, but more now have exercising our responsibility to be part of the public debate. Hmm. That's what's going on. This is a democratic republic. We all have not only the right, but the responsibility to parti in the public debate. So that's what was happening there. But people came, you know, with that sense of joy. There's a, a great showing of young people and young families.
Speaker 2 00:04:59 And one of the things I think that's encouraging, I find this among our young people, they'll say this, you would think that you are all alone in what you believe. And when you see other young people celebrating life, that that can be very encouraging. It's the same with our faith. But that's one of the things I love about World Youth Day, is that you see so many people who share that exuberance for the faith. So seeing those things is always very uplifting. You see the mass at the Shrine basilica, it's always just so beautifully done. You see the crowds of people, you see the reverence, you see people really deeply at prayer. Um, you see number of bishops and priests. You see large religious congregations, A great, great, great presence of religious, here's the church. Mm. Here's the church and here's the church of prayer. Being united. A word we use around here. A lot Diversity. You see God of diversity. You see people of every race and language and nation and culture at this march. So it is very, very uplifting.
Speaker 1 00:06:01 You know, I think, I must admit, I was a little bit confused this year because of the great news of the Dobbs case earlier in the year, and just wondering, well, is the pro-life march going to happen? Is it gonna happen in DC? And, and yeah, I'm sure
Speaker 2 00:06:16 That was, that was a factor. And I think it did have an, an effect. So, so some diminishment of the numbers, and part of it was confusion. I'm on the committee for Pro-Life Affairs for the U S C C B. I know that that was a matter of confusion and maybe it wasn't communicated well, but by the time it was really set, this is what we're doing when we're doing it. And you're right, some thought that maybe now you wouldn't have the march or really since a lot of the work is done at the state level, a lot of diocese were doing state events. You know, tell you the truth, when I was in Columbus the two January as I was there, I did not go. And maybe we sent a bus, maybe some people went. But from Columbus, it was an overnight trip. Really?
Speaker 2 00:07:00 Sure, yeah. Realistically, we always observed it in the diocese. We lived across the street from the, the Capitol. And in fact, my goal there was to get the other bishops of the state. So like, why don't we all come here to the Capitol Now they do that in the fall and maybe send buses down. So I think there was some confusion. I'm going to put it out there on the line. I also know, especially with some of the young, I think there was a little bit of concern because you've heard some of the vehement of some of the anti pro-life rhetoric and some of the threats and the violence, and you've seen some of the attacks on pro-life centers. I think, you know, schools were a little reticent. But you know what? Thank you to the DC Metropolitan Police. Thank God for the park police, the Capitol police, all, they kept an atmosphere that was safe. I mean, again, this is a place where people go to engage in the public debate. That's right. And so they're expert at it. And they did a good job of keeping everybody safe and keeping everything in good
Speaker 1 00:08:07 Water, I think. But you mentioned earlier about like coming together and being strengthened and supported by the witness of so many. The last time our diocese went to Washington DC was in October. And we had a, a great and blessed opportunity to fill the national shrine and to be supported by the presence of one another. This year, again, now for this pro-life march, there were some representatives from our diocese. Is that right, Bishop? You had a chance to
Speaker 2 00:08:32 See, right? One of, yes, exactly. So I got to visit with some of the groups that came down. It was great because I would, had a chance, first of all, seminarians had gone down overnight. So I was with them for a little bit. And I got to see, I'll confess, I went to see the seminarians from the Josephine, them too <laugh>. I went with the seminarians were getting together. So it was a chance to see some old friends, you might say. Sure. And then, um, they would together at that mass seminaries. And then there was a New York gathering the next day at St. Patrick's Church over near the fourth theater. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think Cardinal Dolan had started that with the Sisters of Life years ago. Actually may go back, who knows. It may go back even further to Cardinal Cardinal O'Connor. Even. That was a nice gathering. Bishop Byrne from New York offered that mask. Just seeing New Yorkers in general. Adriana Rodriguez from our de sales office, who is our, also our director of communications, she accompanied me. And I called my office Christina and my office Command Central. We were <laugh> back and forth, you know, connecting with the different groups where their locations and now with iPhones, share my locations <laugh>. Sure, sure.
Speaker 1 00:09:40 Try to catch everybody,
Speaker 2 00:09:41 Try to catch everybody along the way. And it really worked out because you know what, it was important for me to be able to go down to say thank you to them. To see them in their group very simply to say, thanks for making the sacrifices. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, people made sacrifices to be there. Some people, it meant taking a day off. And I mean, to me, it was just another day. It was just another day in the life of a bishop. You know, this That's right. Is what we're doing today. Yeah. But, you know, people had to take personal days. Yeah. And they chose one of their personal days to do this. Yeah. They got up early, actually, one of the buses, they were here for, I think a six o'clock departure. They were here 5, 5 30 for a six o'clock departure. The bus didn't come until nine. And you know what, they still came down. We did see them. I did get to see them. They got there about one 30 or so. They were there just as March was kicking off.
Speaker 1 00:10:33 Basically March and get
Speaker 2 00:10:35 Back on the bus. Exactly. And come back. But for them was their witness. It was, it was their witness. They were there. Met a couple of the parishes. One fun group, I'll just tell you. The parish of St. Peter. And Paul joined with the, um, sisters of the Incarnate Word. And they were a group of about 300. Wow. Not just the parish boy. Talk about a lively group. I think Adriana posted some of those videos. Yes. There was a, a lot of joy and a lot of excitement.
Speaker 1 00:11:01 You see the, them playing the guitar and dancing and jumping up and down and singing, and you could see the joy there and you in the midst of the whole crowd. That's
Speaker 2 00:11:09 Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So it was important to say thank you. And the people who were there were glad to be there. And when you look at Brooklyn, it was an assembly of people from all different ages. I got to see most of the groups. I did see a couple of other people from the past in different places. Long Island. Um, Columbus, I'll tell you, I ran into one man, this is an interesting story. He's from Grandville, which is sort of like on the outskirts, like a suburban community to Columbus. His family has restaurant heading in. Sure. And he says, you know, when you did confirmation, we invited you to dinner at the Inn. And he said, oh, that's right. I remember. He said, well, you know, we had a fire. I said, oh, I'm sorry. And he said, yeah, the kitchen burnt down, you know, he said, we're in the midst of rebuilding.
Speaker 2 00:11:52 He said, but you wanna know something. This inn was a stop on the Underground Railroad. The Underground Railroad passed through part of Ohio. He said there was a room where escaped slaves would go and stay and hide, and that room is still there intact. He said, do you know the fire went through the kitchen and stopped at that door. Wow. And the whole thing would've been destroyed. But absolutely, he stopped at that door and he said, plus, I had a whole bunch of papers, he said, and things all around it were destroyed, but things on the inside there, my papers and everything preserved. Wow. And I said, wow. You know, so you get to see little, you hear little stories and make absolutely the connections. But again, that sense of joyful witness.
Speaker 1 00:12:37 Now you were mentioning, we were chatting earlier about the, uh, homily preached. Yes. Uh, was
Speaker 2 00:12:43 That at the bishop? Bishop Pur is the new chair of the Pro-Life Committee. Bishop Herbi took over for Archbishop Leary when Archbishop LA was elected vice chair of the, uh, conference. So he just started and, uh, he was thrown right into the fire. So he presided at the mass and preach. He gave a wonderful homily. And I know that it's, if you go to the U S C C B page, there's a link to his homily. If you go to the news story about the day. And then as you read it, you see the little blue, uh, print where you click, that's a link, and you click on his homily. But he was talking about what is the task in a post Dobbs world, you know? So he spoke about some of the practical things, things that we need to be able to do, the challenges we need to do at the state level.
Speaker 2 00:13:31 And then when I did the Pro Vita Mass, and that was another great occasion on Sunday, I used a lot of the, his three points. He says, there's something more important that we're going to do, and that is to change and transform the culture. You know, so we were talking before about how Rob v Wade put an end to the conversation. Dos at least let's the conversation happen. Now, our task is transforming hearts and minds. And so number one, he says, the argument for life is a very compelling argument. We have to trust that argument and use the tools that are available. You know, the modern world is very, very favorable towards science. Well, we need to be able to show the science and talk about, and be familiar with and understand some of the things we need to be able to talk about and explain some of the myths.
Speaker 2 00:14:24 Some of the lines that are drawn are not true lines. You, there are things, for example, ectopic pregnancies. Moral teaching doesn't say that you can't address the dangers of an ectopic pregnancy. And some that does sometimes result in the loss of the life of the child, which would happen anyway. It's not that you, you're not allowed to save the life of the mother. We don't advocate that at all. Yeah. What's put forth as exceptions are just basically kind of, of washing out the argument. Sure. The point is, there's a lot that can be done medically, scientifically, and a lot of proof of the humanity of the child in the womb. A lot of proof. So he said, we need to catch onto the science and explain it. Second thing he said, this becomes a little bit more difficult. He said that we need to be able to be credible witnesses. We need to be able to show joy and integrity when we're talking about the pro-life argument. We have to communicate. He said, our views with love, we have to communicate our views with love. I'm gonna quote, he says, today, this is no small challenge. Social media allows us to disseminate our message widely and efficiently, but it often brings out the worst in those who disagree and dismiss our beliefs and convictions. And it may not bring out the best in us as we respond. A little bit of an examination of conscience.
Speaker 1 00:15:44 Absolutely. Absolutely. You see often the use of social media in disseminating information, both the view of the pro-life concerns and those who oppose it. I, I've seen even more recently, the protestors protesting. And I've only wished that those who were standing for life would just stand humbly and quietly. And sometimes in our,
Speaker 2 00:16:07 Sometimes women were standing
Speaker 1 00:16:08 Me. Yeah. They respond with something negative for
Speaker 2 00:16:12 Vitriol anger. Yeah. That's not going to convince anybody. Yeah. Now, let's be honest, that's not the case most of the time. Absolutely. Truly by far. But unfortunately,
Speaker 1 00:16:26 That's the one that'll go viral. <laugh>. Right? That's the one that'll be shared or, or give the bad representation. It's a great point of examination of one's con
Speaker 2 00:16:35 Conscience. Conscience. Yeah. You know, that's what I love about the March for Life. It's joyful, it's respectful. It's people showing great appreciation for other people. The other thing we have to do, kind of connected to that speaking the truth with love, is we need to be consistent and embrace the full range of respect for the dignity of every human person. Abortion, the condemnation of racism, addressing and eradicating poverty and injustice and abuse of all kinds. I would say racism, particularly because that too is a crime against life. It's a crime. It's a denial of the dignity of the opposite person. It's a denial of the dignity of the other person. And it's a rejection of the base of biblical truth that every one of us has created in the image and likeness of God. So a judgment of racism is a judgment against God. Hmm. In the end. So again, so the second step in terms of transforming a culture is to be credible, both in the way we present the argument and in the consistency of the
Speaker 1 00:17:37 Argument. And then, uh, Bishop, when you came back from, uh, Washington, dc uh, you had also a mass here in the diocese at St. James Cathedral, the pro vita, the pro-life mass, which was an, an annual mass that happens here, sponsored by the Knights of Columbus.
Speaker 2 00:17:52 This is an annual mass, and I was thrilled for the chance to be able to celebrate it this year. We celebrated it at the Diocese and Cathedral of St. James. And I think that was highly appropriate, especially in this bicentennial year. The cathedral was filled with people, and it's always nice to be with the Knights, um, and their families. Wherever I've been, I've always felt that great support of the Knights. But, you know, both in Washington and here, the Knights of Columbus are tremendous in their witness and their support for life. And so the Knights themselves were honoring one couple and two individuals for their tremendous work, for witness of life, whether it be in the Knights, in Columbus, in the councils. One was to bridge for life. And then our own father, Michael Penta Col, was the awardee, the clergy awardee. And so that too was just another joyful event.
Speaker 2 00:18:44 But these were people who rejoicing, you know, this mass on Sunday, the first reading in the Gospel, we hear the words of Jesus quoting the words of the first reading. That prophecy of Isaiah, the people who walked in darkness have seen a great light upon those who lived in the land of gloom. A light has shown you've taken the burdens off their shoulders and smashed the yolk that burdened them. And in a sense, we could identify with those images that indeed, in a 50 year period with lots of discouragement, there's a little bit of encouragement mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so, uh, the nights were able to bring home that sense of encouragement. And it was nice to be able to celebrate that here at home. So we had the away event, but then we brought it back home here to Brooklyn and Queens
Speaker 1 00:19:32 Here, you know, in our podcast, big City Catholics, you know, we're only, this is our 31st episode. We've already had dedicated an episode to this issue of pro-life, which shows again how important this topic is to you and to all of us as a people of faith. But by inviting on the, the different organizations we had Bridge to Life, particularly. That's right. But as you're saying, being consistent, which also reflects walking with mothers in need, being there to help oversee the child through their, their,
Speaker 2 00:20:05 And respecting dignity of persons at every stage along the way. In between. Third thing, prayer, before we went out on the march, we gathered in prayer, and before people, a lot of people left from their different departure sites. Many of them prayed or they prayed on the bus on the way down. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And they, we have to remember, we can't do these things alone. This is God's work. God can and will help us. I was asked, uh, by John Wennberg for Crux. He's also with us, with Desai about that idea of prayer. And it occurred to me when I was talking to him that, you know, you look at biblical history, and whenever the nation tried to take matters into its own hands, or whenever God's people tried to do things according to the way of the, the world, the, the message of Isaiah to King has you, you know, when the nations around him were all at war, and he wanted to kind of form alliances, and Isaiah said, no, do it God's way, not your way.
Speaker 2 00:21:02 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> not your neighbor's way. Whenever the nation tried to take matters into their own hands, what happened? It just became a mess. When they surrendered themselves to the guidance and the power of God, God always wins. That's right. Now, it may take a while. It may not be on our timetable, but God always comes through. And that that's the lesson. It's the lesson of Exodus. It's the lesson of the Babylonian captivity. It's the lesson of the prophets. It's the lesson of the book of Daniel and the Maccabees, which is Hanukkah over and over and over again. Whenever we try, you listen to prophets, the temptation is to say, I got this. I can handle this. I'm gonna do this the way of the world. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> falls apart. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but God does it his way, his time. Yeah. And God will always come forward.
Speaker 1 00:21:48 Beautiful. I mean, that's a, a true giving over one's in obedience and, and humility and patience and prayerfulness to God. And as you mentioned, you know, the changing of hearts, sort of, I think of the 12 step program, the Serenity Prayer. God grant me the serenity except the things I cannot change, curse to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. But in that recognition that it's only God who can change hearts. And through our, our example, our authentic witness, we can help in that plan. We can help move that plan as well. This morning, I know we, we record these earlier in the weekend. Every week I say mass for the missionaries of Charity. And in the diocese of Brooklyn, we have two houses, an active house and a contemplative house. I say mass with the active house, which was a house that houses women in crisis pregnancies.
Speaker 1 00:22:37 In the beginning of mass, as I began my homily, uh, there was a bit of a commotion outside the chapel. And one of the mothers who had been living there and pregnant, her water broke. And she went into labor this morning in the midst of the, the mass. I mean, she wasn't sitting in the chapel or anything, but I just thought, what a beautiful place for us to be, the sisters and myself to be in the midst of this celebration of the mass praying for her, for and for the child that is to be born today. And so isn't that beautiful? I, I just thought how awesome it was. I know that the nuns, the sisters there were in their humanity. They wanted to be with her. You know, they were anxious and they, there were someone there attending to her as the ambulance came, the rest stayed and prayed. And what a better place for us to be than praying for her. And that's just a great example again, of, of how our church on a local level is helping moms to bring their children to birth and to help them through that.
Speaker 2 00:23:36 Well, it's been quite the week. I mean, we've, it's, you know, the March for Life's a Pro Vita Awards. Last week I celebrated the Dominican Feast. Dominican meaning from Dominican Republic of a Lady of Alta Gracia. And again, another occasion of great joy, a lot of excitement over at Our Lady of Sorrows Church. It was the Diocesan Mass, but they held it at Sorrows in Corona. We got lots of good things coming up. As we said last week, Catholic Schools week, coming up, coming episode, we're going to have Father Jino talking with us about some of the big events coming up in terms of the Eucharistic revival right here in our diocese. And I'm looking forward really to unpacking some of our Martin Luther King Day celebrations and Black History Month with Father Alonzo Cox. So it's anything but quiet here in the big city. Catholicism
Speaker 1 00:24:25 <laugh>. That's right. That's right. That's the move in the hustle and the bustle of being living in this big city.
Speaker 2 00:24:32 <laugh> the hustle and bustle of the big city Catholic is also the hustle and bustle of our podcast. So we're looking forward to That's right. Some of the weeks that are coming
Speaker 1 00:24:38 Up. Yes. We, we do have a lot coming up on our podcast, big City Catholics. Next week you'll be joined with Father Alonzo Cox. As you mentioned, I won't be able to join you next week, so I'll, I'll be tuning in. Okay. On, uh, my Apple podcast. I get it every week. It comes to my phone every Friday when our podcast goes live. So I hope more of our listeners will subscribe as well and inform their friends and others to do so. But Bishop, why don't you end with, uh, sure. The
Speaker 2 00:25:04 Prayer. Sure. Let's ask the Lord's blessing upon us and upon all the people of our diocese here in Brooklyn and in Queens, the Lord be
Speaker 1 00:25:12 With you and with your
Speaker 2 00:25:13 Spirits. May the Lord bless you and keep you. May his face shine upon you and be gracious to you. May He look upon you kindness and ous peace and may mighty God bless you, the Father and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 1 00:25:23 Amen. Amen. Amen. Thanks again everyone, and have a great rest of the week.
