Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:10 Welcome to a new edition of Big City Catholic. Thanks for joining us again this week. We're going to be a little bit different. Father. It, Chris, can you is out teaching up at the seminary of St. John the 23rd in Boston for a few days. And I am here today with Father Alonzo Cox. As you may have heard in, uh, prior podcast, we were looking forward to having this conversation with him. So Father Cox, thank you for joining me
Speaker 2 00:00:35 Today. Thank you very much for having me, Bishop.
Speaker 1 00:00:36 We'll begin with the prayer. We'll just ask the intercessions of our blessed mother. In the name of the Father of the Son of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with the Blessed act among women and blessed is the fruit of God. Jesus,
Speaker 2 00:00:50 Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and happy hour of our death. Amen.
Speaker 1 00:00:55 In the name of the Father and of the Son of the Holy Spirit. Amen. So, father Cox, you are the pastor of St. Martin Depo is parish in the Bedstuy area. Tell me a little bit about the makeup of the parish.
Speaker 2 00:01:06 So the parish is made up of three churches, Olivia Victory, holy Rosary, and St. Peter Claver. We were canonically merged back in 2007. It is a changing neighborhood. The neighborhood was dominantly African American, Caribbean, west Indian. Over these last few years, we've seen a lot of demographic change to Bedstuy. One of the things that happened was that the parishes in that area were affected by the change in demographics. So we worked better together than we do apart. Back in 2007, Bishop Demario and at the time Bishop Caggiano really worked hard to make the three parishes come together. And so we, or they had come up with this beautiful image of St. Martin Depos, you know, having the opportunity to really just keep the spirit of all three churches, you know, intact. You know, we were able to canonically merge the three churches together. And now it's a vibrant community. We welcome an array of different nationalities. You know, I look into the pews and I see black faces, white faces, Asian faces, Hispanic faces, and you know, that's really what the church is. It's a dynamic community of believers. I'm very privileged to just be a part of the history of St. Martin Depos as, as its
Speaker 1 00:02:21 Pastor. I had an early introduction to St. Martin Depos understood circumstances. One of the priests had a Lady of Victory. Father Carter died. He was a Gray Moore father, and the funeral was going to be at Gray Moore, but graciously the community allowed that he would line repose at the church. And we had a mass farewell, not necessarily funeral rights mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but a memorial mass for him. And that was just around Christmas time of last year.
Speaker 2 00:02:49 Father Carter died on Christmas Day. We were able to have, you know, thanks to the graciousness of the Gray Moore community, you know, they were able to allow him to, you know, align repose at our Lady of Victory. Father Carter had a great love for our Lady of Victory. I mean, he was the first black pastor of Our Lady of Victory. He was in charge of black ministry for the Diocese of Brooklyn, uh, when he came to the diocese and then just fell in love with the community there. And the community fell in love with him. You know, he did so much to just empower the black community there, to strengthen them, to encourage them. And one of the things that he did, and, and, and we still have it, is that he really wanted the church to reflect the people. He had images of black saints all over the church. If you notice, right. As soon as you walk into our Lady of Victory right above the altar, there's our Lord on the cross and he's painted black. It's just a constant reminder of the connection that the people have towards our Lord, that they're able to see this beautiful image of, of Jesus and an image of a blessed mother that looks like them. So I think that's really just an encouragement.
Speaker 1 00:03:57 And that is even the nativity figures.
Speaker 2 00:03:59 Nativity figures. Yeah. They're, they're just, it's a constant reminder of how much these images of saints, you know, look like the people
Speaker 1 00:04:06 In the, and Father Carter did some work for the care of the church, and if I'm not mistaken, he left a little piece of himself.
Speaker 2 00:04:13 He left a piece of himself. His image is in the stained glass window, <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:04:16 And gets such a kick.
Speaker 2 00:04:17 You know, he's, he's always watching. He's
Speaker 1 00:04:19 Always watching. He's always watching. He's always watching. Yeah. And one of the parishes, St. Peter Claver was actually founded by Monsignor Quinn. Is that
Speaker 2 00:04:27 Correct too? St. Peter Claver was founded by Monsignor Quinn. As the story goes, Monsignor Quinn wanted to minister to the growing black community that was moving into Bedstuy. He was assigned to Nativity Church, which is right, which was right around the corner. He really got a lot of resistance from his brother priests, and he got a lot of resistance from, from his pastor. So he was told, if you wanna minister to the black community, build them a church yourself. And he did. You know, he built St. Peter Claver for the black community, and it just skyrocketed. He had these weekly No Venus to the Sainte, to the Little Flower. And so many people from all over came and participated in those Novenas. And in addition to building St. Peter Claver, he built Little Flower House of Providence in Waiting River for Orphan Black boys and girls. He really left his mark on the Diocese of Brooklyn and the diocese of
Speaker 1 00:05:22 Rockwell Center. And he's beloved even today, especially in the parish community. Absolutely. I hear it. Whenever I'm over that way, I'm reminded that we are interested in his cause and I appreciate the work that Gervis has been doing.
Speaker 2 00:05:37 And you know, Monsignor Jervis wrote a wonderful book on Monsignor Quinn, quote, the Quintessential Priest, and it really just outlined his ministry to the people of St. Peter Claver and the impact that he had on the parish community. You know, I, I thank Monsignor Jervis really for all the work that he's done to promote the
Speaker 1 00:05:55 Course, and we're going to continue to pray, pray for that. Cause that would be a, a great blessing for us. We know that we have his powerful intercessions. We know that already. We don't need him to be named as Saint to have that. We know we have his powerful intercessions, but wouldn't it be great to have a saint from our diocese, uh, and a priest who was so holy, and it's such important work. So we look forward to that day. You yourself, you've been pastoring there how long?
Speaker 2 00:06:19 I've been pastor there since 2014.
Speaker 1 00:06:21 And you also do some work here're on the board of Lockland High School, Bishop Lockland High School, which is right down the block from where I live, and sort of right between the cathedral and the co cathedrals. Absolutely. We are in Catholic School League right now. I've been visiting the elementary schools and having a grand old time. But over the course of this last year, plus I've been to a number of our high schools and actually a couple of times to Bishop Locklin. I'm so impressed. I'm so impressed
Speaker 2 00:06:48 By this. Yeah. You know, Bishop Locklin has really just done it's a great school, and the Deela Sal Christian Brothers have done such a great job with ministering to the school community in really running the school community. Brother Dennis, who's currently the, the president of Bishop Locklin, has really done an amazing job with making the school community vibrant. Um, enrollment has really gone, gone up. I have the great joy of just sitting on their board of governors and seeing the, the fruits of their labor come to fruition is, is really just amazing. I'm very blessed. And even at my own parish, I have, uh, I had a student who spent four years at Locklin and became very involved in the parish and, you know, loved this time at Bishop Locklin High School.
Speaker 1 00:07:30 So
Speaker 2 00:07:30 I
Speaker 1 00:07:30 Remember him. Yes,
Speaker 2 00:07:31 I
Speaker 1 00:07:31 Remember him. Yes. So the reason I asked that we could have this conversation is, was sort of in between two times that your office, you're the vicar for black concerns in the Diocese of Brooklyn, and you do tremendous work with the aria, part of which is to raise that awareness within the whole of the church of any kinds of black concerns, but also really to help us to really appreciate the spirituality. The African American spirituality has been such a blessing for this diocese and for the church in general, but also to recognize some of the ways that we need to continue to grow as a community and as, as a church. During the month of January, we celebrated Dr. Martin Luther King Day, and during February we'll be celebrating black history Among both events, really were important events for the Vic Carrier.
Speaker 2 00:08:23 Absolutely. Yeah. So every January we gather as a diocese to commemorate the birthday of Dr. Martin Luther King. In the past, we've had a prayer service, and we've sort of gone back and forth between Brooklyn and Queens. But this year the advisory board wanted to do something a little bit different, and we wanted to begin the day by really having a candid conversation, you know, about racism and about the reality of racism. No one likes to talk about racism. It, it's such a touchy topic to talk about. I, I think, think, you know, for the community, it's an important topic to talk about. It's something for, for the entire community to discuss. So we wanted to have this discussion, and we wanted to have it in a place where there were not just a large majority of people of color, you know. So we wanted to do it at a place where, you know, it was a dominantly white parish or dominantly par, a parish that really wouldn't have a large amount of African Americans that would worship.
Speaker 2 00:09:23 There are people of color that would worship there. And so we were able to do it at St. Kevin's in Flushing. And we began the day by having a panel discussion in which one of our school principals, our academy principals, Ms. Lorraine Pierre, she was the moderator, the priest who was coming in to preach for the prayer service Father Johnny Gibson from the, the Archdiocese of New Orleans. He was a part of the panel and our very own deacon, Kevin McCormack, superintendent of schools, he was also a part of the panel. And we wanted to just have a candid conversation about how racism has affected the life of the church. What can we do to combat the sin of racism within the church, and to allow people just to really, you know, talk about it and to really, uh, discuss how racism has impacted their lives as, as a Catholic, you know, whether they be a black Catholic or Hispanic Catholic, whatever the case may be, of how racism has reared its ugly head into the church, but how we can defeat it and how we can combat it. So I thought we had a great conversation and I was so happy that you were able to be a part of that, and you were able just to hear and to listen to some of the things that were being discussed. And it was a fruitful morning, I thought, you know, being able just to sort of hear some of the things that came from the people who
Speaker 1 00:10:37 Were there. I agree. I think it was a very fruitful morning. We could sometimes say difficult things to one another, but say, so as brothers and sisters, it was a great sense of mutual respect all around the room that day. And I think our panel was great, but we also took questions from the floor and some tremendous insights. One of my refrains, you might say, is that it's very important that we can listen deeply to one another. It doesn't mean that everybody's always right. It doesn't mean that everything's out for a vote and that the majority rules, but it means so is that we need to hear from one another how we see the world, or how we view experiences or how we hear things today based on our experiences and just grow in mutual love and respect. I mean, the key to me in racism, and I would say racism is a life issue because it gets to the heart of the dignity of the human person created in God's own image and likeness. We
Speaker 2 00:11:45 Are all created in the image and likeness
Speaker 1 00:11:47 Of God. God. So you have to, you have to begin with that. So how do we see each other? Can we see that divine spark in the, the eyes of every single person? From a personal point of view, I would say I can, and I do, but I can't, in all honesty say that I can speak with the experience of somebody who's experienced the effects of racism. These kinds of conversations, while they can be uncomfortable, actually can be eye-opening.
Speaker 2 00:12:15 Absolutely. You know, and I think, you know, in reflecting upon our experience with Martin Luther King Day, I think it was an opportunity for us to begin to have those conversations and for us to listen to one another. And I think a lot came from it. And, you know, I've heard so much over these last few days about how it was good to gather that way. It was good for us to be able to express how we were feeling and to hear from one another. And I, I think it's an opportunity for us as church to just understand that, you know, we may come from different backgrounds, we may come from different ethnicities, but as you said, we are all created in the image of likeness of God. We are all brothers and sisters, and, you know, we want to be able to come together and to be able to share who we are with one another. For the building up of the church here in Brooklyn and Queens
Speaker 1 00:13:05 In this past couple of days, we certainly saw some very raw emotions. I mean, when that video was released from Memphis. And that has to open up wounds for many, many people.
Speaker 2 00:13:19 Absolutely. I was horrified when I saw the video from Memphis. Just, you know, I brought back so many of those moments, you know, with George Floyd in Minnesota. And I think, you know, we, we, we have to pray. You know, I, I think one of the things that we, you know, we turn to the Lord, we ask the Lord to bring healing and strength to the community in Memphis. But I think we have to continue to promote peace and justice within our communities. And I think, you know, one of the things that's happening in Memphis is that there's this, this is happening too many times. It's just happening way too many times. And, you know, what can we do as a community to fight for justice, to pray for justice, you know, that the Lord will bring the people who did this to poor Mr. Nichols, that they will be brought to justice and that the Lord will bring healing to that community. And that's my prayer, is that the Lord will continue to bring healing to his family, but that justice will continue to be
Speaker 1 00:14:13 Served. Yeah. My background is a very strong police background and my members, my family and I, and I have tremendous respect for our police departments. And I certainly, I always offer prayers for our police and all our, our first responders. But whenever I am the one offering the petitions, I'll always say for those who watch over and protect our community, who, those who serve our nation at home and overseas. And so it's with great respect and appreciation of our police officers and our first responders that I approach this. And in fact, I may be one of the, of the reasons I'm so horrified by what happened is because of that respect for our police, these
Speaker 2 00:14:57 Are people who are called to
Speaker 1 00:14:58 Protect. Yeah. And, and anyone I know in the law enforcement community is horrified by this as well. And that's, that's the very point that this does not represent just like we feel it among our priests, you know? Absolutely right. Priests are accused of things. It's not reflect, but it's because of who they are and cause of who we are. That we are horrified when the bad things happen because it's just not us. We ourselves want to see the truth of, of the goodness, the sacrifices that people in law enforcement make. I mean, many of them go out every day making tremendous, tremendous sacrifices and taking risks for our wellbeing and safety. And so when you see somebody like you say, who's sworn to protect and serve doing such tremendous things, it's gut wrenching. It's absolutely gut wrenching. So yeah, I join you. We pray for healing. And you know, it's, it's right there. You know, we have, we have to address violence at every level. Absolutely. At every single level, you know, our own city. Many cities are just very simply to violent. Many of the losses are among African-Americans. Violence is a major, major issue. It's somehow or another with great respect for one another, the dignity of every person. It
Speaker 2 00:16:18 Always goes back to that we are all created me and mission likeness of God. We're all brothers and sisters, and we have to pray for an end of violence. And, you know, being able to come together to be able to, to live in harmony with one another as brothers and sisters.
Speaker 1 00:16:33 Now, on a more positive note, we start now the month of February, black History Month. And that's another event that we've shared, uh, with the diocese of Rockville Center over the last few years. And so this year, the event will take place in St. Agnes. Yes. And we'll both be there February 11th.
Speaker 2 00:16:50 February 11th at 2:00 PM Bishop Baris will be the main celebrant. And this year we've invited Father Anthony Bozeman, who is a Josephite priest who currently serves as academic dean at the Josephite Seminary in Washington dc. So we are, we're very much looking forward to having him as, as a hoist. Uh, last year, as you know, we had the great joy of welcoming his eminence, Wilton Cardinal Gregory, and the first African-American cardinal of the Catholic Church. And what a great celebration we had last
Speaker 1 00:17:24 Year. We did that in, uh, Jamaica. In Jamaica. The passion is parish conception, and it really was, it was so, it was joyful, it uplifting. And card mcg Gregory, he, he's a tremendous speaker, but he's challenging and encouraging. That was great. So I'm moving forward to this year's celebration. And, you know, I'm originally a priest of Rockwell Center, so I have a little bias here. The, uh, is it the Thea Bowman,
Speaker 2 00:17:49 The sister, the Bowman Gospel Choir, they will provide the music, and
Speaker 1 00:17:53 I've loved them for many years. And so we're going to enjoy, uh, that the, the music will be great. We certainly wanna invite people to the event in person. But, um, I would imagine between Catholic Faith Network in Rockville Center and, and that tv, it will be accessible to all our folks everywhere in the diocese.
Speaker 2 00:18:14 Absolutely, yes. You know, we, we thank Bishop Baris for opening up the doors of St. Agnes being able to host us in the diocese of Rockville Center. So, uh, we, we do hope that, you know, everyone will be able to come out and participate and be with us, whether in person or by net TV or Catholic Faith Network.
Speaker 1 00:18:32 Now, other events, are there other events going on during the month of
Speaker 2 00:18:35 February? The first week, the Saturday, we will have a screening of the Sister Theia Bowman movie. Mm. Shining like a shooting star. Sister Theia Bowman is on the road to sainthood, just an exec, an exceptional African-American nun who was filled on fire with the Holy Spirit. And she, you know, really just wanted to express her faith as an African-American and to share her faith with the church. You know, one of the most beautiful moments of Sister the Bowman's life was as she was dying of cancer, she wanted to speak to all the bishops of the United States. And, um, there's a powerful, powerful, um, moment in that meeting, in, in her talk with the bishops, where she made all the bishops stand up as she made each bishop cross their hands and hold each other's hands. It was just such a great symbol of, of unity, a symbol of, we are church. And you know, as a church, you know, we have to continue to acknowledge the fact that there's racism, there's this prejudice, there's all these things that are happening, but we as church coming together as brothers and sisters, we can combat it. We can overcome it. And, and she made everybody sing, we Shall Overcome. And, and just a beautiful and powerful moment towards the end of her life, being able just to share that moment with all the bishops of the
Speaker 1 00:19:54 United States. Some of the older bishops that I have come to know, remember that moment very well, that to them sticks out in their mind as a very powerful, powerful
Speaker 2 00:20:05 Moment. So we hope and pray, you know, that, you know, she'll be raised the sainthood very soon.
Speaker 1 00:20:10 You know, that was one of the conversations that we had during the panel discussion. There are a number of people and you handed out a bookmark mm-hmm. <affirmative> with, uh, their images and like the basic information. But we have a few people from other parts of, of the world who lived here in America who are in a sense on that road to sainthood, but have the title venerable or servant of God. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, you know, there's some concern about where are these causes. Some of the ones that stick out to me certainly talked about the a Bowman sister. The Bowman. When I was in Columbus, I learned a lot about Father Augustus Tolton. Yeah. And I, I've really grown in, in a devotion to Father Tolton. I mean, he, he strikes me Yeah. As a remarkable priest. A remarkable parish priest
Speaker 2 00:20:57 Yeah. Who went through so much and Yeah. You know, to be born a slave and to die a priest of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1 00:21:02 Yeah. Just,
Speaker 2 00:21:03 It's an amazing,
Speaker 1 00:21:04 It is amazing. Ri Laj right down in New mm-hmm. <affirmative> Pier.
Speaker 2 00:21:09 Pier.
Speaker 1 00:21:10 Now he would be a Haitian mm-hmm. <affirmative> background, but he was a slave. Right?
Speaker 2 00:21:14 He was, he was, came here to the states, came here to New York, and, um, just really a again, just shared his faith, you know, shared his love for the Lord, was able to, to overcome all of the obstacles that were thrown his way to be able just to proclaim and to profess who he was as a disciple of Jesus.
Speaker 1 00:21:34 We have some saints in our midst. We do. Um, I had a, the question came up, well, where, where is that Cause? And of course, we are working hard on the course of Monsignor Quinn here because, uh, we identify with him. But I was talking with Father Sonno, one of our priests who worked for years in the, uh, Vatican for the cause of Saints. And he gave some particular advice. He said, you know, we as Americans need to kind of focus a little bit, and we, we need to make it a habit to pray for miracles, to seek their intercession of the saints, but to do so, you know, not just like pulling every card you can, and then Sure. But really in a devoted way, maybe using a third class relic Absolutely. To say, um, Monsignor Quinn, please go interceding for this person. Get other people to do that.
Speaker 1 00:22:21 And be very deliberate. Um, the same Father Tolton or, uh, sister Theo Bowman really storm heaven as it was number one to pray, invite others to pray, and to be very specific. Make it a point that we're working together, praying for this, the intercession of the saint. And then he said, enter report. He said, you know, there were probably some events, maybe miracles may be favors, but people are reluctant to report. Yeah. The Vatican can work it out. They'll determine. Um, but that it's important to get that, get those stories in so that, um, they can be considered for a ization process. Beautification ization. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 00:23:08 Absolutely. I would, I mean, and I say it all the time, you know, pray that through the intercession of, you know, I, I have a great love for Augustus Tolton. I have his prayer card on my desk at my office, and, you know, whenever things get tough or whenever things get difficult, I, I look at this prayer card and I said, get me through this. You know, get, get us through this. And he hears our prayers.
Speaker 1 00:23:28 Yeah. And, you know, we believe in the power. We believe in the communion of saints. Saints are our friends, so we call on them. Well, I wanna thank you for the work you are doing here in this diocese and in so many different ways about with the parishes, with our schools, um, with the Aria for Black Catholic concerns. You've actually taken on an added responsibility with liturgy, and you helped me in a thousand different ways. And so I thank you for that. And I thank you for being with us today. Thank you. And thanks to you who are listening. I'm glad to be connected with you and to share some of the great things that are happening around here. We ask God to continue to bless you. In fact, I'll ask the Lord's blessing, the Lord be with you. Come with your Spirit Almighty God bless you, the Father and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Amen. Thanks. And we look forward to being together next week for another edition of Big City
Speaker 0 00:24:25 Catholic.
