Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:10 Welcome back to another edition of Big City Catholics, our Dias and podcast with Bishop Robert Brennan, the Dias and Bishop of Brooklyn. Myself, father Chris hen you. Today we're joined by, uh, deacon Kevin McCormick, the superintendent of Catholic Schools here in the Diocese of Brooklyn. We're happy to have you, but you've been on a few times in my absence, and I know you're itching to get back on again. So we're happy to have you.
Speaker 2 00:00:30 I'm a little crowded today, I gotta admit, you know, <laugh>, but all King said, it's wonderful to be with you
Speaker 1 00:00:36 Both. Thank you. Thank you. We'll begin in prayer, and the name of the Father and of the Son of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Asking our blessed mother's intercession upon our diocese and all those. Within it we pray. Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with the blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of the I womb
Speaker 3 00:00:52 Jesus. Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us. Sin is now and at the hour of our death
Speaker 2 00:00:57 Theme. Amen.
Speaker 1 00:00:57 The name of the Father and of the Son of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Speaker 3 00:01:00 Well, it's good to be back in this room where we record our podcast, because I've been on the road a lot now since Christmas. Really? Mm-hmm. Um, we've been doing things either remotely or in advance, and just back this week from retreat and what a great experience that was. Bishops of New York State we're together in prayer. Father Rich Vers, who is one of the professors at the seminary, St. Joseph Seminary in Dunwoody, led us in the retreat. It was a great retreat, and I came back to a three day weekend, and it was a good chance in the beginning to try to catch up on things. But on Monday, deacon McCormick, you and I were together for the diocese and celebration of Martin Luther King did. We had prayer service, which has been the practice of the diocese. We did midday prayer at the Church of St. Kevin, but something new as years, we had a panel discussion and you were part of that panel.
Speaker 2 00:01:52 It was very exciting. I was first of all very honored to be asked, there are certain assumptions that, incorrect assumptions that it would not have precluded me being part of that. When Father Alonzo asked me very early on to be part of that, I, I jumped at it because what I don't want to ever see happen is Dr. King become a niche man of, of faith. In other words, he, he belongs to a certain group, whether black or whatever the case may be, but he belongs to all of us, and he belongs to the larger Christian reality. So I was very glad to be part of that and to listen and to dialogue, and to me, a real rising superstar Father Ajani, uh, Gibson, he, he was very, very, well, look, I'm an old man, but he's a kid by my standards
Speaker 3 00:02:29 Priest for a year and seven months priest of New Orleans. And boy can he
Speaker 2 00:02:34 Preach. Oh my goodness. My g i I fancied myself a decent hoist. I'm not a preacher. I went home very humbled. After listening to him, I'll tell you, he
Speaker 3 00:02:43 Did a great job. And, and then on the panel, the panel was excellent, and it, the panel was coordinated by one
Speaker 2 00:02:49 About principles, right? Yeah. One of our principles, she did a great job, and it was the two of us. It was father and myself. And then after we responded to about five questions each, after each question, then it, it was open up to the whole group. There was a lot of passion there, but every one of them, no matter how they spoke, really spoke from their heart and their experience.
Speaker 3 00:03:05 And this is something that's becoming more and more apparent to me. Something that I become more and more convinced of, I should say. One of the key factors is we need to listen deeply to one another. What does that mean? To listen deeply is to pay attention, really to hear what somebody else is saying and see from where they come. So it's very easy to jump back with your own reaction, your own judgments, or say, wait, well wait a minute. But what we need to do if we're ever gonna make any progress in areas like racism, is to listen to the experience. So the same experience may look different to me and to an African American person, because I may miss certain details. I, I learned that when I was in Columbus, we viewed the film Emmanuel mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which was about the killing in the church in, um, South Carolina mm-hmm. In Charleston. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and just little details that I would've missed, which I did miss. We watched, we had a filming together that people pointed out, and I'm saying, wow, we have to really understand the experiences from which people are coming. And that requires that deep, deep listening.
Speaker 1 00:04:06 For those who are not like, familiar with the diocese of Brooklyn, too, you'd think, why are we having a Martin Luther King Jr celebration in St. Kevin's parish, which is a predominantly white Italian, Irish, and now Chinese neighborhood. And it was, uh, in this week's tablet brought out by Father Alonzo Cox that there was a reason why
Speaker 3 00:04:25 That was the exact point, because it meant to be a dialogue, to be a listening.
Speaker 1 00:04:30 It was great. I thought that was just a very wise reality,
Speaker 3 00:04:33 And that gets to their wonderful choice of you Deacon Kevin, being on the panel now. Seriously, because the point was that we make dialogue with each other, not just go about in circles in our own little groups.
Speaker 2 00:04:43 Exactly. What, what I did love about it, there was at one point, I come from an academic background, and, and so, you know, I did my homework and I had used Dr. King in many of my courses that I've taught over the years, but there came a point where Father Ajani was speaking about something, and I felt comfortable saying, I don't know what to do with this. You know, like, here, here's a situation where I hear what you're saying. I know where I'm coming from. I know you know what my experience has been. We need to dialogue on this. I have to become vulnerable to the fact that I don't have an answer to this. The panel was not like showing how pedantic we could be, but really, I thought there was, there was vulnerability and there was openness. That's right. And what I do believe, and, and knowing Father Alonzo, knowing you, Bishop, and the way in which we support things here, this is just the beginning.
Speaker 3 00:05:22 That's right. That's right. And I'm looking forward here in this podcast that Father Alonza's going to be joining us in the upcoming weeks because we're going to talk more about the experience of the day, but also about the celebration of Black History Month during February and some of the events that are coming there. So I'm looking forward to having Father Alonzo join us. We started the week on that tenor, we conclude this week. And actually the day that the podcast is released on, um, the day of the March for Life. This year's March for Life takes on a different kind of a form. So, my goodness, I feel, you know, know Pope Francis talked about airport bishops. I, this time I'm traveling by train, but I feel like, uh, these last couple of weeks saying the month of of January, I'm all over the place. The
Speaker 1 00:06:06 Suitcase is getting a
Speaker 3 00:06:07 Lot of use. Exactly. And I'll be heading down with a number of our groups, and one of the key things for me is to connect with our groups. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but people who take a day sometimes with sacrifice. I mean, you know, somebody who only gets, uh, 14 personal days, they're taking a personal day to go down to Washington. This, this is about conviction and dedication. I applaud people who've been doing this for years and years and years, but also many young people go down. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I don't know what we have this year, but over the course of year schools go down. So I look forward to being there for the March for Life. And that connects with what we were just talking about, because there's one principle at the heart of it all. Every single one of us, every single one of us, and at every stage of life, is an individual human being created in the image and likeness of God. That respectful life has to run all the way through its course. And that becomes really the guiding principle. Can we see that image of God in every person among us at every moment, at every stage? That's the challenge.
Speaker 2 00:07:12 And I think that's also the key to what we do as Catholics. People who don't understand us want to decompartmentalize our efforts and to say, well, the Catholic Church only worries about abortion. Well, we also worry about moms and babies. The Catholic church only worries about, uh, its, its liturgical beauty. And we do, but we also care that the people who come to the altar are welcomed and accepted. So, Cardinal Bardine used to speak about the seamless garment. And I do think that we need to continue to push the understanding that the respect for life is essential in everything we do. It's not just a January event. It's not just a February event. Sure. But it's every day. Every day when we come to our prayer, we come to the Eucharist. When we come to just living our lives, when we're at our best, and we're at our best, more times than not, we're focusing on the dignity of every, every human
Speaker 1 00:07:58 Being. I think, you know, we're gonna have a chance too, Bishop, to discuss your experience down at the march.
Speaker 3 00:08:03 I'll have a chance to talk about it after a actual experience, and I wanna share those experiences with
Speaker 1 00:08:07 You. But how beautiful, uh, that we have the superintendent of Catholic schools here, who, what our Catholic schools do is teach our children at a very young age about the dignity of all human life, the Catholic principles, the Catholic tenants. And so we're, we're entering in, in about two weeks from now, what are the ex exact dates we're entering into Catholic
Speaker 2 00:08:26 Schools. And, and so from the 29th to February 4th, we focus on Catholic Schools week. And so it's a time to celebrate the kids, the faculty, the principals, the boards, the pastors, the support of the parishes. And it really is like a, it's a wild week. This year, we're gonna be able to have every one of our schools visited. Bishop. Right now you're gonna visit like eight schools. I, I, I have you father Chris, that you That's right. Gonna be popping in on a bunch of 'em. That's right. I'm gonna be going to, my deputy's gonna be going to a bunch, and we have a bunch of the monsignors and auxiliaries who are also gonna go and, and kind of make a, you know, it's be a special guest that's there, what we do best at Catholic schools. And it's one of my things I harp on, so forgive me for being a repeat here, but the Catholic identity that we celebrate creates the Catholic imagination. So that our graduates, our students, when they go into the real world, the world that they live in, and by the way, that could be at 13, and it could be at 35 or or 75, they see with the eyes of grace. And so they can see the disabled person, the elderly person, the person of a different culture or shade of skin color, they see them all with the dignity that's here. That's what we do. That's what we do.
Speaker 1 00:09:29 Yeah. Is there a particular theme this year for Catholic schools?
Speaker 2 00:09:32 We, it's imagination. It's bringing out the imagination. So one of the things about being as the superintendent is I could kind of influence that. So yeah, it's celebrating the imagination of our Catholic
Speaker 3 00:09:41 Faith and that sense of the, the Catholic imagination. The Catholic vision is always about looking deeper into reality. A lot of times, Catholicism, Christianity in general is reduced to, well, it's really rose colored glasses. You're looking at the world through rose colored glasses. You're filtering the world. And I always say, I say it, uh, jokingly, but Jesus didn't hand out rose colored glasses at the last Supper. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, and in fact, he told them, you're going to suffer, but have courage because I'll be with you. And so really it's about going beneath the surface. It's going beneath the surface and seeing the world as it really and truly is. So part of our Catholic schools, why our schools are so important is we believed that our schools have to be academically excellent. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So that's something we always strive for. That's part of the Catholic imagination, that God didn't create us for mediocrity.
Speaker 3 00:10:34 God didn't create us to get by in the world. God didn't create us to survive in the world. God made us to excel for greatness. God made us to be his witnesses. And God wants the best for us. So he wants us to be able to have a command of vocabulary, a command of the language, a command of being able to present ourselves in the world. God wants us to understand the way that the world works. So, you know, I'll use the example of science. The church is often proclaimed as being anti-science. And you know, there have been episodes where things have been questioned, and you go back and forth. But point of the questioning is to get to the real truth. To get to the deeper truth. The Catholic church is really at the heart of the foundation of universities. Of hospitals. That's right.
Speaker 3 00:11:21 And, and of all kinds of scientific, scientific discoveries. And the, the deeper you go into science, the more to use a gospel image, the deeper you go into science, the more you touch the hem of the garment of God. You know. Now the Catholic view, for example, does not question evolution. I know there are some fundamentalist views, but you know, when you think about evolution and you think about how the Bible was written, not to, you know, a day isn't a day. Yes. But that God, there's this kind of gradual unveiling of the world. The discovery is about evolution. Kind of compliment what we hear in the Gospels, don't they? When you talk about the Big bang theory, which by the way That's right. Was proposed by a priest. That's right. Yeah. All these things point to the fact that somebody had to create this.
Speaker 3 00:12:08 That this didn't just happen by accident. That the same person, the same one who created this sustains it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then faith gives us the deeper knowledge. And then we learn that through our other academic endeavors. Faith gives us the information that this one who created everything knows me and loves me and wants to be part of my life. So academic excellence is something that's a high priority for our Catholic schools. It goes along with the teaching of the faith, the teaching of the faith, the witnessing of our faith. You know, I would teach everybody who works in our Catholic schools, in a sense, is a minister of the gospel.
Speaker 2 00:12:48 No question. Absolutely
Speaker 3 00:12:50 No question of that. Because the work that they are doing is part of the ongoing proclamation of the gospel, the unfolding of the kingdom of God that Jesus came to proclaim.
Speaker 2 00:13:00 You've talked about this, you know, since you came back home, <laugh>, if you will. But the luxury and the benefits of Christendom that we grew up with are gone. We have to evangelize. And we can't afford to have a professional class of evangelizers. So we need holy accountants and holy bus drivers and holy police officers, and, and nurses and doctors and, and moms and dads and shopkeepers and, you know, fill in the list. And that's the essential part, is that we realize that we don't see with rose colored glasses, in fact, we take away the godless filter that's been given to us. Sure. We hear and see the echoes and shadows of the creator. And we know him. You know, I, that's not mine. I'm stealing that from time. I've been stealing from either of you. But we know the creator. And that's how, when you start with that, that's good news. You know what I mean? That's really good news. And that's what we're in the job of. And you discover that with, I could not do it with actuarial tables, but there's some who can <laugh>, and that's what we need. All of that.
Speaker 1 00:13:53 Sure. And you know, when you think about, on a practical note here in our diocese, a diocese of immigrants, a big city, as you know, our podcast is named after the impact that Catholic education gives to some of our families and to the children changes their lives forever. Right. I mean, these are families that come from other countries where perhaps the educational system is not as strong. We're offering them through scholarships, through opportunities to give them this great opportunity to change their life. I used to say at Holy Child, Jesus, when we had a great, we still do, they still do have a great Catholic academy there, that this is the Catholic school difference. You know, our, our students there are really receiving not just as you say, bishop, great academics, but it's academics rooted in faith. And it's that aspect that changes. It makes the biggest difference in their lives forever.
Speaker 2 00:14:47 There's a terrible hunger for that. Because when they go in, we have good Catholic teachers in, in public school systems, we have good Christian, we have good everybody. They have good teachers in the public system, but their hands are bound and their hearts are bound by being forced not to acknowledge it, nevermind promote it. They can't acknowledge it. When kids come to our schools, it's in the air that they breathe.
Speaker 3 00:15:06 That's right. That's right. Speaking of our students, we then embrace a wide, that same diversity of, of students. And, and I thank God for that. That's something that I think Brooklyn and Queens does very, very well. You know, this came to mind the other day when we were at that panel discussion. Father Alanie made a point about schools in the country, across the country, and do they really reflect the population? Well, having been in a number of our schools, I think that's one of the things that we do well here in
Speaker 2 00:15:35 Brooklyn and Queens, here comes everybody, here comes, here comes
Speaker 3 00:15:38 Everybody, here comes everybody. It's a great, great, great experience. And you see that for a number of reasons. So first of all, our school administrations going out really and embracing and going the extra mile to invite everybody in no matter what ethnic background. Now we do wanna keep our Catholic identity, so it is largely Catholic, but it's not exclusively Catholic. Because what we are doing in a sense, is exposing even to non-Catholics, the truth, the beauty, and the goodness of the Catholic faith. So some may come on in, but others may just say, okay, at least now I understand the church. That's right. You know, but in terms of racial ethnic diversity, boy, you see that in abundance in our schools. Our administrators welcome everybody in. But also, I have to say thank you, thank you, thank you. Every time I talk about this topic to people in futures in education mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Speaker 3 00:16:28 And our contributors, it's people from here in Brooklyn and Queens, many of whom are now the elders in our community, seniors in our community who believe passionately that what they, the tools that they had in life and the tools that sustain their faith, even through tough times, came through their Catholic education. And what do they do? They support scholarship programs and, um, other works of futures in education so that this gift could be really embraced and available to everybody. We call our schools academies because part of it has to do with the way they're structured. Part of it has to do with the quality of education they offer, but they're not elite. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> meaning closed off to a small portion. These are not restrictive, actually. These are wide embracing and the availability is given. I lived in a state where parents were given the ability to u direct their tax money to use it for the wish way. They wanted their child to be educated. That's just not the case here in New York. And I don't see that happening here. But that's what makes the work of futures, you know, and we talk about Monsignor Kasad and Monsignor Jamie and their great work, Monsignor Kass's passion,
Speaker 2 00:17:44 Oh my goodness, for Catholic
Speaker 3 00:17:45 Schools.
Speaker 2 00:17:46 But he puts his money where his mouth is. He helps out immensely futures, I think they give between 25 to 30% of our kids something they give back over 8 million this year. And it's just getting started. The people over there are tremendous. And I'm glad you brought that up, Bishop, because futures and the school's office, we work hand in hand. Right.
Speaker 3 00:18:04 And I've always believed that one of my mantras is that behind Catholic schools, you really have is a network of partnerships. And so there's the partnership between the administration and the faculty, between the parish or parishes and the school. They're the obvious ones between the school administration, faculty and the parents. Everybody's involved in this. Of course, the kids themselves. But there's this whole other network that's not as visible, and that's in the broader community. And so those partnerships, these are people who are grateful or maybe if they didn't have the opportunity, they see the opportunities that are there. And they don't see this as charity. They see this as investment. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they see this as investment. One of the things we want to be able to do is to transmit the faith. Also, people who support our schools and who support futures, they see that and they want to be part of that investment in the
Speaker 1 00:18:56 Future. No, they talk often about like the statistics, the financial, like how much does it cost to educate a student? Right. And I don't remember the, the numbers offhand for public schools, like what they charge to educate a student, but I know it's something like double or triple the costs of at
Speaker 2 00:19:11 Least, right? So our tuitions range between four and $7,000 on the grammar school level, and between nine and 17,000 on the high school level. The high schools have a different system than grammar schools. But if you take, you know, that aggregate of say, 5,500 is our general tuition. It costs about $15,000 and don't hold me that, but it's like between 12 and $15,000 to educate that kid. So every year that academy has to find that gap, that gap, and it gets tougher and tougher each year.
Speaker 1 00:19:38 And what we do with the 10,000 or 11,000 that it costs to educate that student academic excellence. The reports show, the grade show, the examples are there. It is just a, a great opportunity. And I think maybe for someone listening to this podcast who thinks I'll never be able to send my child to a Catholic school, I'll never be able to afford it. I hope that this conversation of recognizing the great gifts and the great generosity of our faithful through futures in education, also through just individual support. You know, in my previous parish at Holy Child, there were parishioners that would come to me and say, I'd like to give a thousand dollars to a family in need. I don't want them to know who it is, but I'd like to help a student come into this school or, or help them with their financial, uh, arrangements. And that exists more than, more times than not. And it's just a great, great opportunity for,
Speaker 3 00:20:31 And even inside, I mean, it's, I think it's beautiful. It's inspiring when it happens with strangers, but even inside families,
Speaker 2 00:20:38 Aunts, grandmas, grandpas, they, they're doing it.
Speaker 3 00:20:41 People, people are doing what they can to help, you know, their own children to provide that opportunity to their grandchildren.
Speaker 1 00:20:47 Generally Catholic schools week, each school does like something each day, right.
Speaker 2 00:20:51 There'll be celebrations, there'll be, uh, dress ups and dress downs. There'll be special prayer services. There'll be masses, there'll be visitors, there'll be competitions. Sometimes there's like a volleyball between the faculty and the seventh and eighth graders. But the whole week, and it's crazy, by the way, you know, like I've got caffeine to get me through the whole week <laugh>. But it's just a tremendous celebration of the kids, the faculty and everybody who comes together with that. Now we're so grateful for our pastors that are helping out and the pair of staffs that are there. Parents. It's just a really cool week. It's That's awesome. Cool
Speaker 1 00:21:19 Week. That's awesome. It's exciting. It's gonna be a great week. And I hope the best for you. I'm looking forward to going around and visiting whatever town. Well,
Speaker 2 00:21:26 People really feel that you're coming, both of you and our auxiliaries and some of our vicars and some of the staff of, of the school's office. It's just a way to be acknowledged. You know, everybody wants an at boy or an at girl. Yeah. And that's what this is, is this, come and celebrate. What's interesting is they're like, what do we have to do to prepare for you? I said, just open the door. I don't need anything. We, none of us need anything. We want experience what you are doing. We wanna be part of that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:21:45 We used to have pajama day or something, you know, the grammar school
Speaker 2 00:21:50 Level. I like to dress up days better. I have to be honest, <laugh>, when they come with like shirts and ties and like, they're going to a formal party, it's, but you know, it's a celebration. There's a lot of reasons to be down on education. There's a lot of crosses we have to bear. There's a lot of issues we have to come to terms with
Speaker 3 00:22:03 And a lot of work we need to do. Yep.
Speaker 2 00:22:05 You know, but, but we're gonna celebrate that week. We're gonna see what the great things are.
Speaker 1 00:22:08 Amen. Well, we hope for the best for you, deacon, Kevin, and, and all the, uh, faculty, staff, and your whole team as they continue to celebrate Catholic Schools week, starting the end of January, January 29th until February 4th. So good luck. And, uh,
Speaker 2 00:22:24 We have the Holy Spirit. They can't fail. They can't fail. Father,
Speaker 1 00:22:26 You get a few days to rest after that. The caffeine Phil
Speaker 2 00:22:29 Boss is here. I don't rest there. <laugh>. I'm working baby. That's
Speaker 1 00:22:33 It. Well, Bishop, perhaps you can end us.
Speaker 3 00:22:35 Sure. And I'm going to use a prayer for leaders written by young people at the turn of the century to house and prayer I used when I is with the New York contingent at Focus with the campus ministry and the college missionaries. But as we look at our schools and as we think of the challenges that we have ahead of us, um, in terms of respecting the dignity of every human person tearing down the walls of division and prejudice of racism, let's ask the Lord to bless our leaders, our future leaders, and to help us to form a new generation of leaders in the name of the Father and of the Son of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Dear Lord, we pray that you will create among us Catholic leaders, individuals made in your image who will apply your teaching in their lives and positively impact our families, our workplaces, our communities, and our church. Help us to inspire those with whom we come in contact to share their God-given talents, to do your will, and to find a place in your kingdom where their deepest joys and the world's deepest hungers meet and cry for their special qualities and abilities. Make us leaders, Lord, leaders with strength and courage to follow you. Leaders who will make your love visible to the world in all of our words. And to actions through Christ Starwood. Amen. Amen. The Lord be with you.
Speaker 1 00:24:06 And with your spirit.
Speaker 3 00:24:07 With your spirit, almighty God bless you, the Father and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Speaker 1 00:24:12 Thank you again for, uh, joining us, Steve and Kevin McCormick, our Superintendent of Catholic Schools here in the Diocese of Brooklyn. This has been another edition of our diocese podcast, big City Catholics. We hope you'll join us again next week as we, uh, discuss Bishop's trip to the Pro-Life march down in Washington, DC and then upcoming episodes with Father Alonzo Cox as we discuss Black History Month. Thanks again and God bless.
