Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Hello and welcome to this week's edition of Big City Catholics. I'm Bishop Robert Brennan, Bishop of Brooklyn, serving in Brooklyn and Queens. I'm here with Father Christopher Henry, pastor at St. Joan of Arc Parish in Jackson Heights. And today we continue with part two of of a two part series, remembering the life and the Ministry of Bishop Murphy. Last week I spoke with Monsignor Joe Degro. We served Bishop Murphy together early on in his arrival. And today Archbishop Perez will join me and we'll be talking about our years serving as auxiliary bishops and what we learned from him. We begin in Easter time in prayer, praying the Easter hymn to Our Blessed Lady. In the name of the Father and of the Son of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Queen of Heaven, rejoice Alleluia the Son whom you merited to bear Alleluia has risen as he said Alleluia Pray for us to God Alleluia Rejoice and be glad, O Virgin Mary Alleluia for the Lord is truly risen Alleluia Alleluia Alleluia Alleluia. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Archbishop Nelson Perez and I were ordained bishops together on July 25, 2012, the feast of St James, by Bishop Murphy. I was already a priest of Rockville Center. Bishop Murphy, Ezra, a bishop from outside, and Archbishop Perez, then a priest of Philadelphia, came to join us. Since then, Archbishop Perez and I have worked closely together, following very similar paths and, and from the beginning became great friends. Since Bishop Murphy's passing, we've been sharing lots of memories of time spent working with Bishop Murphy and all the things that we've learned from him. We're happy to share some of those memories with you, Archbishop Perez. Welcome to Big City Catholics.
[00:02:08] Speaker B: Welcome, Bishop Brennan. Great to hear your voice again. Yes.
[00:02:12] Speaker A: It's not your first visit on this podcast and so it's always good to be able to chat with you.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: Yeah, it's great to be here. You're quite the digital bishop.
[00:02:22] Speaker A: I'm not alone. I see you at all these events. You get the pictures right out and up on the web.
You waste no time.
I guess that's the world we live in, right?
Lots of digital bishops here.
[00:02:35] Speaker B: It's a digital square.
[00:02:37] Speaker A: It is. You know, it's funny you say that. We were going to talk a little bit. Bishop Murphy, he came in 2001 to Rockville center and he had a Palm pilot and a BlackBerry.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: Right.
[00:02:51] Speaker A: Do you remember the BlackBerry phones?
Before anybody had iPhones or anything like that.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: I don't know if he was great at using it, but he certainly had it.
[00:03:03] Speaker A: He was. And he would always have these trouble. I was talking with Monsignor DeGrocco last week. I said, you know, there's Murphy's Law. Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. But I said, the corollary is anything that can go wrong will go wrong for Bishop Murphy and then he'll figure it out. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But he was ahead of his time on that electronic stuff. And. And like you say, you know what it is when it goes ahead of you, and then you have to start to rely on other people. It does get more confusing.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: You know, that's my life now, actually.
[00:03:35] Speaker A: Exactly. You rely on other people. And, you know, that wasn't one of his strong points, relying on other people and being patient and waiting for things. He was a go get. He was a go getter. Yeah.
[00:03:46] Speaker B: I always got nervous if I traveled with him because he would wait till the last minute to get in the car to go to LaGuardia Airport or any place.
[00:03:54] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: Where I would want to be there like two hours before he pushed the limit.
[00:04:00] Speaker A: He certainly did. He certainly did. And he knew how. He knew his way around this. So I guess he was just totally confident in it.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: Well, they all knew him.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: Name. And I would get into those airport clubs.
[00:04:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:13] Speaker B: Because I mentioned his name.
[00:04:15] Speaker A: You see that. Yeah. Well, you know, in the beginning, he was on all these different commissions and committees with Rome with the US Government, International Religious Freedom with the conference. One of the things that I always laughed about, he was a man with a lot of friends.
[00:04:33] Speaker B: He had a lot of friends. Yeah, Yeah, a lot of friends. Dropped those names left and right, too.
[00:04:37] Speaker A: And sometimes, I know I would. You'd roll your eyes and say, oh, come on. Another friend of Bishop Murphy. But then you pump into somebody.
[00:04:45] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: And sure enough. Oh, Bill. Bill Murphy. He's a good friend of mine.
[00:04:51] Speaker B: We bumped into one to somebody, Bishop, on the street of Rome one night.
[00:04:55] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: We were coming back.
[00:04:57] Speaker A: It was a bishop from France.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: And then there was another lady we bumped into, and I don't remember who she was or what her name was. We talked and we mentioned Bishop Murphy's name, and lo and behold, there you go. She knew Bishop Murphy.
[00:05:12] Speaker A: It was genuine. He really did know all these.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: You know, Bishop Murphy had a. Had a global view of.
Of life and. And his experience was global.
There wasn't anything that you could talk to him about that, he wasn't well read in. That was something I really admired and learned a lot about him, because whether it was at our meetings together or a dinner, this guy was a wealth of information and experiences, Just an incredible wealth of experience and wealth, which was amazing to see.
[00:05:48] Speaker A: You remind me that he would read the papers from around the world. He would get up in the morning, he would have his hour in prayer, and then he'd get on the computer and he'd look especially at the Italian papers, the Jerusalem paper, and. And he'd be all read up on it. And then at the breakfast table, he would sit there, he'd go through the papers, he'd tell you what he was reading, but then he'd tell you the real story, right.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: What's behind it, what the papers tell you, which then he happened to know.
[00:06:16] Speaker A: He happened to know. And I think that was connected to that, being a man of the church, being apostolic, being sent out into the world, and that sense of communion too. You know, some of it was through his work in Rome that he would know bishops from around the world, but because of that, he would know churches.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: I remember sitting there initially when I got. When I got to Long island and getting to know him, and I thought, boy, there's a lot more. There's a lot more that meets the eye here behind this guy. Because while he shared it, he didn't share it in an arrogant way. Share it as part of his worldview and. And global experience. Not. Not in a way, really to show off. He. I never found him to be a show off.
No, no, in a very authentic type of way. But that was his world. That was his experience.
[00:07:06] Speaker A: Yeah, he knew people. He knew people. You know, you mentioned when you first got to know him. I go back to that day, the day before our appointment was announced.
June 7, with my 50th birthday, as a matter of fact.
We met in the parking lot right behind the cathedral, and we went in, we had a quick cup of espresso, right.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: And.
[00:07:30] Speaker A: And then we went to see Bishop Murphy. Do you remember your feelings at that whole thing? Because, I mean, I was a priest of Rockville center, so, I mean, it was kind of nerve wracking enough. Like, what's this all about here you were being plucked out of something very familiar and into a whole new world.
[00:07:47] Speaker B: Yeah, it was surreal. It was really surreal. It was almost like, what am I doing here? What am I doing here? But I have to say, Bishop Murphy was out doing a confirmation and he. A little later, and then we had dinner with. With the Bishops there, and.
But right from the beginning, he made me feel so incredibly at home, so welcoming, so with an incredible amount of hospitality. An incredible amount of hospitality, I have to say. And I don't get in trouble for this. I remember getting appointed to Rockville center. And of course, what do you do? You go to.
You go to Google and you Google Rockville center, and it was public on Long Island. About that, you know, being this thing about him living in a mansion type of thing.
And I remember reading all that. I said, well, that's really sad. And. And then I go into his residence for the first time.
And I remember I asked you, bishop, I said, so where's the mansion? And you said to me, you're standing in it.
And I said, this is the mansion, the third floor of a convent.
It wasn't to me, opulent in any way.
Opulent. I remember Bishop asking you, so where. Where's the wine closet?
Where's the wine closet?
Because that was reported.
[00:09:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
And I showed you there's something that looked like a college storm refrigerator cooler from BJ's.
Yeah.
[00:09:26] Speaker B: And, wow, did this guy had a bum wrap, right?
[00:09:31] Speaker A: He. Yeah, he did. And, you know, he really could have made his life easier by pointing fingers at people and kicking and screaming, but he stayed focused on what he was there to do. He stayed very, very focused.
[00:09:46] Speaker B: In the five years that I was privileged to work, you know, under him and for him, I never heard him badmouth people that might have hurt him or caused him harm in some way. In that way, he was an extremely humble guy and a charitable guy.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: Merciful, Right?
[00:10:06] Speaker B: I'm merciful. I told him that a few months ago.
I said to him, you know that, Bill, you went through your. You certainly went through your Paschal mystery, and you did it with. With incredible grace.
And. And you taught me what I could do, too, how I could be graceful and merciful, too. And he taught by his example. It's not like he sat me down and gave me his speech.
He almost didn't need to do that. It was the way he carried himself. And even on that really mundane thing, I says, wow, this is it. This is a mansion. It's an apartment, you know, feeling.
[00:10:43] Speaker A: And barely. Right.
[00:10:44] Speaker B: And barely. Yeah. It was really amazing. But he just smiled. He had a smile about him, which was really heartwarming, actually.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: Where he did like culture. He loved the opera. He was a big one for the opera.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: That was, I think, his luxury, if you will.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: But you had to deal with the opera. I didn't. I was. I had a doctor's appointment or something.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: Well, I have to tell you, there was only. I went to a number of operas, and actually, I kind of learned to enjoy them. I really did. It was. First of all, it was a pleasant evening. You'd have dinner in the city and all that, but it was a whole other world. There was only one opera. I think it was called Le Trian. It was in French, and it had some dancing in it. And I thought to myself, oh, my goodness, I would have liked to have taken a nap.
But other than that, when you learned what the story was and you went in with the prepared. He taught me how to be prepared, to go. It was actually quite enjoyable. And. And then now, this is kind of my simple outlook on the world, but you'd go. And I recognize some of the opera music from cartoons and commercials.
[00:11:53] Speaker B: Wow. That was. In my world.
[00:11:56] Speaker A: I know that one.
[00:11:59] Speaker B: I know you went to one of them with Bishop Murphy. That was like seven hours long.
[00:12:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it was that. That one. But by and large, we had a good time and a lot of laughs. The other, he introduced us to the conference. Now, you and I have been. We've had similar paths, Right. You had the added step of being plucked out of Philadelphia, but we served in Rockville Center. You went to Ohio. Cleveland. A year later, I went to Columbus. A year later, you went back home to Philadelphia. A year later, I went back home, in a sense, to Brooklyn. I'm serving right now as chair of the Committee for Cultural Diversity. You served in that capacity. You've done a lot of other conference work. You do a lot of conference work, but really, we learned the conference from Bishop Murphy, didn't we?
[00:12:41] Speaker B: Not only did we learn the conference because he was deeply invested in the life of the church in the United States and deeply connected to other bishops. What he taught us is he challenged us to be generous with our time with the work of the bishops. That that was part of being a bishop.
That part of being a bishop. To be in communion with the other bishops.
Right. And to be generous with our time and with our gifts. And generous. We have been in our work with the conference. And that was really a value that he gave us as his Episcopal sons, you know, to be involved in. Yes, to focus on where we are and what we are. But he taught us, he taught me that being a bishop involved, also a responsibility not only to the church in the United States, but the church in the world as well, and to be
[00:13:39] Speaker A: that a lot of his work in the conference was with domestic policy, international policy. So he had a great concern around the world and also ecumenical and interfaith work. He did a lot of work very close to the Jewish community and the orthodox Christian community. Yeah, yeah. And sometimes you'd have a bishops coming from somewhere, and he, like, we would sit near him at the conference and he would say, this person's important. Pay attention.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: Right, right. Well, we sat in a row.
[00:14:13] Speaker A: We sat in a row. Then Bishop Anche joined us and Bishop Penning and. Right, and then. Yeah, and then they changed the configuration of the seats.
[00:14:21] Speaker B: Growing and growing.
[00:14:23] Speaker A: Yeah, we were taking over.
[00:14:25] Speaker B: But the joy that he had, though, when.
When I was made an ordinary and went to Cleveland, and the joy when I was appointed archbishop of Philadelphia, he had this wonderful, joyful and healthy pride of both of us. He was proud of us, Bob. He was proud. He really felt really proud because he knew we loved him, and he also knew that we admired him and learned a lot from him. In many ways, we were kind of like, cut out of his mold a bit because of the values that. That he instilled on us.
[00:15:01] Speaker A: He.
[00:15:02] Speaker B: In that way, he was. He was truly fatherly to us.
[00:15:05] Speaker A: Really and truly. And you think about his extensive impact, Bishops really, around the whole eastern seaboard have some connection. You and I do. Bishop, Bishop Koenig, Henning, Labashi. He placed people. He was always working.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: He was always working the field that way for the good of the church.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: The good of the church. He was. Yeah. And he had no hesitation, just, I'm going to call the nuncio or get
[00:15:33] Speaker B: in a train and go down to see him.
[00:15:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, you know, we were joking before about his friends. That was the first time I met the nuncio, Cardinal Pierre. I was going to profession for the little sisters of the poor. And Bishop Murphy says, archbishop Pierre, he's the nuncio in Mexico. When you go, say hello to him and bring him my greetings. He's a good friend of mine. And I says, okay, the archbishop, the nuncio in Mexico. Right. Well, I didn't get the words out of my mouth. I said, hello, your excellency, I'm Bob Brennan. I'm from Rockville Center. And he just jumps right in. Oh, Bill Murphy. Bill, my good, good friend.
[00:16:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Whether it was a cardinal or a nuncio or an archbishop or a local pastor, I'll never forget. We were in Rome.
We're both in Piazza Navona, and, oh, yeah, Murphy told us to knock on the door of, I guess the pastor of St. Agnes in Sorrow in Piazza Navona. And he took us apartment there that had a little balcony. He made us espresso.
Super good friends with Bill Murphy. And yeah, there isn't a day that I don't go by there when I'm in Rome. Just a month ago, less than a month ago, I was in Rome and I look at that balcony and I don't. I don't know.
I think his name was Gianni, Don Gianni or Giovanni Don Gianni.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you're right.
[00:17:01] Speaker B: And I look at that little balcony there overlooking Piazza Navona in Rome, and I says I was in there. And I was in there because Bishop Murphy knew that guy.
[00:17:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
And was perfectly comfortable just knocking on the door and going up and having coffee.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: And he took us down, if you remember, he took us down under that church to where St. Agnes was martyred. Where goes.
[00:17:25] Speaker A: Actually, no, that. You know, that excavation just opened up. They did a whole excavation. So you can go down there now. And, and, and when you go, we saw that fresco of a young Saint Agnes. You know, whenever you see Saint Agnes, she looks much older and she's in her glory. This was of a young teenage St. Agnes. You know, she died at 12, 13 years old. So it was a little more authentic. You know, I forgot about that. And Bishop Murphy told us that he used to. When he was living in Rome, when he was working in Rome, the Pamphilia Doria family had this as a chapel. And he would go there and celebrate the Holy Week, the Triduum, at that church of St Agnes. Before he ever came to Rockville center, he had this great devotion to St. Agnes.
And that came out, didn't it? He really did love.
He loved St Agnes.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: And I came from the church of St Agnes in Westchester, which I think he loved the fact.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:18:19] Speaker B: That was the parish where I pastor when I was appointed a bishop.
[00:18:24] Speaker A: Yeah. So that was one of those things that I picked up from him, that great devotion to St. Agnes, you know, the teenage saint, the teenage martyr and bishop.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: He had great, great love for you.
He always believed Bob and. Bob.
[00:18:39] Speaker A: Yeah, Bob Morrissey. Didn't he do it? Just because he's the one who really stayed by his side for years.
[00:18:49] Speaker B: Yeah, for years.
[00:18:50] Speaker A: He really did. And he was more than a pre. Secretary. He was really his canonist as well. He served in so many ways. He and Catherine and the office staff and the household staff there, Paul and Lucy.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: That was.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: That was another. That was another. If you're going to give him Luxury. He did enjoy his Italian food.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: He sure did. Yeah. And he made a big deal of both of them. And the meals that we had there. You know, I would love the fact that we would meet, I think it was monthly. We would meet in the vicar's meeting, in the bishop's meeting, but it would always finish with a meal.
It would always finish with a meal.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: Yes. Everything we did, it would always finish with the meal. And, you know, and when you were done with the meal, I mean, the meal was. The work was done.
[00:19:37] Speaker B: The work, even the meetings were incredible because it was.
It was the work to be done.
And then add anecdotal stories of his experiences that something would happen in a conversation that would spark him to remember something.
And he would then go into that story, which is always fascinating. And they all are really kind of fascinating stories because of the breadth and the depth of his life experience.
[00:20:08] Speaker A: You know, another thing I feel I've learned is that whole. His governance style, you know, he liked to get everybody together and just talk things out, whether it be the cabinet. That was the first time I experienced that structure, management people, or the vicars. Now, Bishop McGann had worked with the vicars very closely in and something of a management team there, but he really enjoyed hearing people being together and just talking things out. And that's something that's affected me in my own work.
[00:20:39] Speaker B: Oh, same here. Without a doubt. I meet with the bishops here once a month, just like we. Where did I learn that? I learned that from Bishop Murphy. And we pray, we talk and we eat. That structure I learned from him. It was incredible. If anybody taught me how to be a bishop, he taught me how to be a bishop.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:00] Speaker B: And I said to him several months ago, you taught me how to be a bishop, and you didn't even know you were doing it. Didn't even know that he was doing it at all. Pretty fascinating guy that way. A mentor that mentors just by doing what he does.
[00:21:14] Speaker A: So it's good to catch up and good to reminisce moving forward. Coming into the post Easter season, I bet you have a lot going on, started this week.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: This week has been good stuff, though. A lot of good stuff going on. A lot of good stuff happening here in Philadelphia.
Trying to move the needle, literally moving our pastoral center to a new setting only 800ft away. Our missionary initiatives. I spent all day with them yesterday.
A lot of great things happening.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: That's good.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: It's a time in Philly and around the country and in the world, actually.
This is A time of renewal and revival. The spirit is moving.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: That's the case. You know, a lot of the pastors here are validating what you're reading in the papers about the bigger crowds at Easter, but even just in. In involvement of young people. So we're kind of excited about that. Some really good things happening.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: You know, we've had our difficult times and we're moving into another time. I think it's very obvious and very visible. Visible.
[00:22:17] Speaker A: And isn't that what it's all about? It's the Paschal mystery that you mentioned before.
[00:22:21] Speaker B: There's a dynamism to the Paschal mystery, that the Church, the mystical body of Christ, continues to live, used to live. So it's a wonderful. In the church.
[00:22:31] Speaker A: It is. Well, listen, it's good catching up. I appreciate your time and thanks for the great reminiscence. I wish you a happy remainder of the Easter season.
We're coming up on Good Shepherd Sunday and we pray. We pray for our Holy Father, Pope Leo.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: Right.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: Whom Christ has appointed shepherd to guide us here and now. And we pray for the help that we could be good shepherds. And we pray for all of our priests, the priests who work day to day right on the front lines.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: Absolutely. They're a gift to the Church and a gift to us. Right?
[00:23:03] Speaker A: That's right. That's right. All right, God bless you. We'll see you soon.
[00:23:07] Speaker B: Take it easy. Bye now.
[00:23:09] Speaker C: Thank you for joining us in this second episode of a two part series, Remembering the Life of Bishop William Murphy. We're grateful to Archbishop Nelson Perez for his presence on the show again today. And we are grateful for each and every one of you for joining us each and every week as we end this podcast in prayer.
We pray in a particular way for vocations to the priesthood as this upcoming weekend, the fourth Sunday of Easter is commonly known as Good Shepherd Sunday. In doing so, we'll use Bishop. Bishop Brennan's Prayer for Vocations. In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
[00:23:45] Speaker A: Amen.
[00:23:45] Speaker C: Almighty God, we turn to you at this hour with all our hearts. Hear our prayer as we ask for an increase of vocations to the priesthood, diaconate and religious life to serve your church in Brooklyn and Queens. May we always have the ministers we need to stand at your altars, administer your sacraments and lead your people on the path to heaven. We pray that we will always be attentive to your call and that if today we hear your voice, we may not harden our hearts, rather that we have the courage to respond with generosity. We ask this through Christ our Lord. Amen.
God bless you, and we'll see you again next week,
[00:24:32] Speaker B: Sam.
